User talk:Penwatchdog/Archive 2

• ByTheWay: there's an article titled ballpoint pen drawing which i didnt author but the existing edit is mine; i have additions/revisions for that BUT, i'm wondering if that page should just be merged back to ballpoint pen (from which i think most of the original content originates)... the thing is, i've got a complete article-update for it BUT if it's gonna remain as its own article i think a better title would be ballpoint pen artwork... any advice which direction to take that??Penwatchdog (talk) 15:28, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Lennie Mace at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; see step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 01:34, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I have moved this nomination to May 30 based on the history log and the WP:DYK and WP:DYKSG rules that you may not be aware about. With regards, George Ho (talk) 18:06, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Ballpoint pen artwork DYK

Hi Penwatchdog. I am the user vianaarts (fan, not the guy per say) I am new to wikipedia. I was wondering why you guys deleted my last entry? I thought I added all verifiable and valid references and links? I'm sorry if this isnt the right place to talk, I couldnt find a "send message to this user" button. I hope you dont feel offended. Let me know what you think. Because if you guys mention Juan Francisco Casas, you should definitely mention the other guy, Samuel Silva.

Hi Penwatchdog. I have to say I love your writing style. The Ballpoint pen artwork article is excellent and I had no idea that people did art like that... and so well too.

About the DYK stuff, the DYK guys can be really tough. And I mean REALLY tough. There were a number of people that submitted DYKs for years that ended up leaving after the process got changed to be more strict. I just wanted to say that up front, in case you don't want to put up with all the BS... and there's a lot of BS there.

First, the DYK people are going to criticize everything little thing. The first thing they'll go after are the images. They'll want artist's permissions for all the images. Just like the Rene IATBA image stuff you've been dealing with lately. The next thing they'll go after are the references. they'll want all of the references to be from books, magazines and newspapers. Then they'll go after the language. They'll want it to be written very dry and formal. We can do all this if your up to it. One thing I've seen people do is to hack away at their article to get it past DYK and then revert it back afterwords. That's something we can do if you like.

I can start hacking away at the article to get it past DYK if you want. Or I could tell you what to do if you'd rather do it yourself. Please let me know how you'd like to proceed. Best regards. 64.40.54.88 (talk) 13:02, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

• none of this is surprising; just annoying. I'm prepared to deal with it, but YES by all means please HELP! I think your help may be best directed at helping me fend them (him/her) off at talk:dyk... i can use a third-party reviewer there; right now i've been mainly answering to one young stud. All of my photos are SAFE; submitted by the artists (some as per my request but, still, with DIRECT, undeniable artist approval!) OR chosen from images available in Commons and already among images being used (Spirograph; Il Lee)... I7ve now done such a more-than-adequate job citing everything i oughta get a medal!! thats not to mention the fact that i have back-up sources, and am willing to delete to meet approval~ anyway... hundreds of benjamins of my time, help me make it worthwhile! how can i help you?! Penwatchdog (talk) 13:49, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, getting a DYK is a lot like politics. A lot of it has to do with being nice to the right people at the right time, which sucks. I'll start doing a detailed review in a little while. Then I'll start removing stuff, but I'll ask you first because it may be failry drastic. Best regards. 64.40.54.88 (talk) 14:41, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I really appreciate your help, THANKS so much~ i'm fine with all of this really... i'm just waiting for more specific suggestions to come along, from you too please! i have nothing against any of these people, and i'll fight for my articles integrity as long as i can; all i need is constructive criticism worthy of my time and i'll happily continue working on it! Penwatchdog (talk) 15:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Back again. Just made some minor alterations to BPPartwork. If you'd like to take it upon yourself to start snipping away, you've got my blessing & thanks. I'm actually running out of time to deal with this myself much longer. And yeah I'd figured anything cut now can be re-inserted post-DYK. On top of everything, i just quit smoking > causing a rise in drinking = a certain amount of b**tard is surfacing in all directions right now! Please help. (!Oh, is there a nickname I can call you instead of Mister 64.40.54.88?) Thanks so much. Penwatchdog (talk) 09:05, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Penwatchdog. I know the DYK process is very frustrating. Anybody is allowed to criticize a DYK nomination and the person nominating has to jump when anybody says so. It sucks, but that the way it is nowadays. In the end, you have to do what everybody asks. You can't really fight it.

Regarding the article, I was hoping to make the changes in one big edit so it could just be undone. But it's proving to be too difficult. So I'm just going to start hacking away at it, which I hate to do because it's going to feel like I'm attacking the article. If there's anything you don't like, just undo it.

Regarding sources, they don't have to be online. If you have a magazine, book, newspaper, whatever, you can just write it down in the references setion. It doesn't have to be online, so you can leave the URL = section blank. Kind regards. 64.40.57.54 (talk) 00:30, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

For reference, here's what the article looks like before I start chopping away at it. You can go back to this version to recover it. Best regards. 64.40.57.54 (talk) 00:36, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks alot for your interest & assistance. I was just about to resume editing & noticed the "lengthy edit in progress" tag; figured it might be you... I7ll leave you to it and return later to go over it. Again, much thanks! Let me know how i can help you anytime~ Penwatchdog (talk) 02:05, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I've spent about 8 hours verifying, formatting refs, blah balh blah. But I'm only half way through, so I'll resume tomorrow. There's still a lot to be done, but we'll end up passing a DYK. Just wanted to note 2 things.

1. They may end up saying "sorry, too late"
2. The article is only on the main page for 6 hours as opposed to a whole day

Thought you ought to know about that stuff. One last thing, the more I look through your work, the more impressed I am with it. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Best regards. 64.40.57.54 (talk) 08:39, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

• I've been tracking your time & actions; undying THANKS! I'm running out of time to deal with this myself for at least a week. I just noted knowledge of your activities at talkDYK and provided ALTs to deal with what i noticed... particularly: "ref cites" in the Lead section are really unsightly for me; I really hope to keep the intro cleeeeean (Its always bugged me as a reader). I posted options at talkDYK. I've got another day-or-so to spend with this; for now, i won't interrupt your work with revis' of my own, but I'll keep tracking your activity & talkDYK comments. Is it out of place to say i love you? nevermind ;-) Penwatchdog (talk) 09:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I removed the {{fact}} tags. We'll need to rewrite the lead section to summarize the whole article per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section in order to pass DYK, but that's usually the last thing to work on because the article may be changing a bit. Kind regards. 64.40.57.54 (talk) 10:42, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

• Noted; understood... My day is done; hopefully you're getting a good nights sleep or blown off steam. I'll be tracking closely tomorrow because it's really the last time I'll have for this until next week. I'll be available throughout the day! I'm in Far-East-Asia. Don't know where you are but chances are by the time I'm waking up you'll've been working on things yourself for hours... all my power to ya! I'll announce my arrival once I've had my Coffee and Onigiri. Continued THANKS! Penwatchdog (talk) 17:44, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

• Good morning folks. I'll be available for the next several hours, will keep track of progress. Let me know if there's anything i can be doing! Penwatchdog (talk) 02:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't see the problem with th Lead sentences in current form, but I've been looking at all of this way too much; need fresh eyes... Are those statements not referenced in sourced material within body-copy, or are there other issues altogether?

Regardless, I've prepared the following ALTs for some of those Lead lines...

"Since the invention and subsequent proliferation of ballpoint pens in the mid-20th Century, creative (choose: application/usage/capabilities) of this common writing tool is generally associated with gradeschool doodles or (distracted?) scribbling. Over the years, however, ballpoint pen artwork produced by professional artists has appeared in gallery and museum exhibitions, and given increasing media coverage (worldwide?).

and, the last sentence of the second 'graph (which seems to be the only one questioned there)...

"Ballpoint pen art websites showcase the artwork in it's varying forms, and offer information of the usage of ballpoint pens as an art medium."

That last sentence can be ditched altogether if necessary; it was intended more as a harmless nod to the many talented doodlers hustling their talent on the web. If anyone else has suggestions/recommendations, now's the time while i have the time. Then it's out of my hands. Thanks evryone! Penwatchdog (talk) 02:37, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

I'll finish the referencing stuff and then get back to you. 64.40.54.160 (talk) 05:08, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• Well 64, looks like you are doing a fantastic job. This should pass DYK (and perhaps even GA?) in a jiff once those citation tags are done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• I'm still here tracking too, learning about referncing more'n more, thanks for the education! Most of the cite tags are for lines which were part of the original text before i did my big expansion. I tried to spin them & source what i could; unsuccessful, eh... alot of those lines are disposable as far as I'm concerned, I'll be able to delete & rewrite as necessary tonight. Just waiting to hear the final tally. Thanks, folks. Penwatchdog (talk) 07:52, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Just a couple more things I'd like to go through. I added a note at DYK. Best regards. 64.40.54.160 (talk) 08:23, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• I think everything is done now except the stuff mentioned at Template:Did you know nominations/Ballpoint pen artwork. So if you can fix those things, you should be good to go. Kind regards. 64.40.54.160 (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

• I've now revised as per your direction! Just notified TalkDYK too. I'm outta here until Saturday 7/21. Will check in then. I hope alls well with this now. I really won't even be reachable until 7/21 if something else comes up. All my best, my friend~ Penwatchdog (talk) 14:19, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Ballpoint pen artwork

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:03, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations, Penwatchdog. Your article is on the main page right now. Best regards. 64.40.54.164 (talk) 02:50, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to note that you can add {{User DYK}} and {{DYK user topicon}} to your userpage if you want. Kind Regards. 64.40.54.164 (talk) 03:04, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

• Back from the wild. Thanks again & always. DYK admins stiffed me by excluding the Mona a'la Mace image though. I may not again care to involve myself there. OH!: am i the only one to have noticed obvious vandalism on a front-page article? the "Evers" of the "Tinker to Evers to Chance" has un-cited addition stating: "Evers suffered from an extreme foot fetish, unable to survive a game without suffering an erection from fellow players feet. In his career, he suffered a total of 948 erections. He often escaped into the bathroom tor relieve himself before returning to the game. He would often joke to other players about using his own erection instead of a bat, saying that it would be able to get a better homerun than a bat." BTW, with the exception of my "medals" here, how can i archive/hide my talk page to clean it up? Penwatchdog (talk) 07:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

"by excluding the Mona a'la Mace image" Yup. It's really difficult to get an image on the main page through DYK because only one image can be added per 8 hour cycle. So the admins have to choose only one of all the images that are submitted with each DYK. It has to do with formatting the DYK section if I understand correctly.

"how can i archive/hide my talk page" You can do it manually yourself or have a bot do it automatically. The instructions are at Help:Archiving a talk page. 64.40.54.49 (talk) 08:11, 21 July 2012 (UTC)