P'iɬiɬskin

Blanking my own previous post as anti-WP:AGF, you can read it if you want in the history of this page; I don't want a WP:No personal attacks scold from any other experienced users. This should have been a welcome template. But given your edit comments on Chinook Jargon you should read WP:AGF and be mindful of those who came before you. And of your own biases.Skookum1 (talk) 06:24, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

kʰilay-təmtəm nayka pus na wawa-masachi ikta kʰapa mayka. I surely should have been more polite in my edit comments, however, I stand by those I made. I am a new user, but my understanding is that obviously biased, hyperbolic, and uncited statements shouldn't be a part of a wiki page. Given that the language is very important to me, my family, and my community it's distressing to see the most visible web presence for the language contain factual inaccuracies, obvious bias against the majority of the speech community, and hostility towards disagreement. P'iɬiɬskin

This is very much a GR-bias: "The CW of OR is not different enough from other dialects to render it irrelevant to them". Yes, Henry Zenk and Tony and Dave would say that.....but Barbara Harris wouldn't, and I know if I asked him, Terry Glavin wouldn't either. I've discussed this with language people of the St'at'imc and Sto:lo and others, and the consensus- unreported and unpublished however - is that this assertion is wrong. If you were to put that in the article itself, you would have to cite it, and state that it is the opinion of GR-based linguists, not a general rule across the field.Skookum1 (talk) 06:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

I indeed have biases as they are a fundamental part of being a human being. Please remember you also have them. I did not replace your uncited fact-asserting statement with one of my own, however, and I don't intend to as I understand personal correspondence are not valid citations. I am also skeptical that Dr. Harris would agree that the Chinuk spoken in Oregon is so different from any other dialect to render it irrelevant to them. Further, I would be amazed if any reputable linguist would ever say that the different dialects were not mutually intelligible. P'iɬiɬskin

You can be skeptical about Barbara Harris all you want, I grew to be a personal friend of hers and spoke with her often; she was upset at the claims coming out of Grand Ronde, and also at the treatment of me at CHINOOK-L; modern GR CJ necessarily has lexicon imported from Kalapuya and Klickitat et al, replacing English loan words that are "standard Jargon" elsewhere. The bizarre notion that Kamloops Wawa texts are identical to the phonology of GR CJ is groundless, yet has been given credence....by GR-advocates of course; but it is a tenet of the notion that GR is the "standard", when in fact it wasn't. The munk/mamook difference and the sawash/siwash and skookum/skooKOOM difference are only some of the lexical differences. And contrary to the nostrum t hat there is a "correct" word order, Barbara was of the opinion that grammar didn't matter, communication was and that there was no standard or correct pronunciation or grammar. As far as I know, she's passed on now so I can't get her to testify to that, but I knew her and you didn't.Skookum1 (talk) 06:40, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I've decided to de-watchlist the CJ page completely, also the POV fork "use by English-language speakers" one....have your way with it. I have high blood pressure and this is an area that gets my blood pressure up, partly because of the way I was treated for daring to disagree with those who feel they WP:OWN the subject...I won't go on, I've wasted too much time and energy on this already tonight, it's not worth arguing about. If Wikipedia has taught me one thing, not that I didn't already learn it in CHINOOK-L, is that those who harbour illogical biases and skewed premises and closed minds about those who are not like them are not going to be changed through words they insist on "reading into" other meanings than what is being said, or which they just do not want to listen to, based on the person speaking them not being of the same skin colour.

I would like to remind you that a lot of us natives down here in OR are in fact multi-racial people and that many of the language teachers, researchers, and learners are white. I would ask that you please not accuse those who disagree with you of race based discrimination. As has been said before, I am a new user of wikipedia (editor at least) and am not familiar with whatever long standing gripes you have with the communities in OR, but I am not willing to be called hurtful names and new as I am even I can tell that you are violating the WP:AGF you keep citing. I assure you I will continue challenging my own biases and that I always attempt to keep an open mind, but I highly encourage you to do the same. As an outsider to your apparent long-standing feud I must say that you exhibit a persistent hostility (I have now read the CJ talk page) towards anyone you see as being a "chinookologist" and are very biased towards the use of the language by whites on the page. Honestly, it's concerning that a white male who accuses Indians of reverse-racism towards him is a primary voice on the Wiki page for an Indian language. P'iɬiɬskin

I am very busy with work and my own language revitalization efforts, but I will continue adding to the page. It's concerning that Zenk and Tony Johnson are not cited and a discussion of phonology, syntax, and other grammar points would be really helpful. It'll take me some time, but I definitely plan on helping the page along in factual accuracy and reflection of the current state of the language. P'iɬiɬskin

Tony and Henry were not cited because I don't have their books on hand; and the distorted views of First Nations history in BC I encountered at Grand Ronde were very....odd; and it was there that I got called "racist" (by Tony) for maintaining that, as Barbara Harris had before me, that all Jargon use was the Jargon; she also believed that Grand Ronde was a creole, and that reforms to its lexicon (purging English terms in favour of Kalapuya and Klickitat and other languages' terms) was racist and biased.Skookum1 (talk) 06:29, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

P'iɬiɬskin, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi P'iɬiɬskin! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Rosiestep (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the Teahouse This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 20:42, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments at the Chinook Jargon talk page!

Left a few notes for you there. If you'd like to try a few edits over at Chinook Wikipedia or other indigenous languages in the Incubator, go ahead! Don't let excitable folks concerned about preserving their particular version of the language slow you down; we need to generate content to support new generations of speakers. Djembayz (talk) 14:11, 5 April 2014 (UTC)