OMaHTLD

Welcome to Wikipedia!

Hello OMaHTLD! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! TheronJ 15:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC) Getting started Wikipedia tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting help Frequently asked questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Fair use • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolving disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

I see that no one has welcomed you yet - let me correct that. Please let me know if there is anything else you would like to discuss. Thanks, TheronJ 15:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Request for advocacy

OMaHTLD, I am responding to your request for advocacy. How can I help?

My guess is that your priority is responding to the current request that the Lost Colony game page be deleted. (Here).

Assuming I am right, let me give you some initial advice. By all means, if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask. (You can just respond on this talk page and I will respond as quickly as I can).

• The principle issue that is relevant to whether or not the Lost Colony (game) page is likely to be "notability" -- whether the game is sufficiently well known to merit inclusion in the encyclopedia. (See generally the general notability guideline and the specific guidelines for articles about web content and about products and services of corporations).
• The easiest way to show notability is to show two or more "non-trivial" references to the game in "reliable sources" - printed newspaper or magazine articles are probably your best bet in this case, but coverage by a journalist working for a major on-line resource like Wired or even GameSpot might help.
• My first suggestion would be that you ask around on the relevant forums, or even e-mail Red Planet's marketing people, and ask for references to any print or on-line media coverage. It doesn't have to be positive coverage, as long as it's "non-trivial" and it's actual journalistic or expert coverage rather than a forum page or a blog by someone who is not an industry expert.

Anyway, welcome to Wikipedia!

Let me know if that's helpful, or if you want anything else, TheronJ 20:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the response.

Well, the game has definately been covered by Gameshout.com :-)

The game is more noted for the controvesy surrounding it, and the fears that it was/is a scam. It seems more likely however that it is just a poorly executed game with even poorer management of its PR.

Also, I am in dispute with the user Stateofshock, who works for the game company. He is keen to make sure no mention of the problems or false claims the company has made, to the point of removing every change I have attempted to make regarding this. I have attempted to show some of this, and present the matter in as neutral a fashion as possible, but it seems that his goal is to simply make the wiki page a promo for their game.

More recently, even the references I made to their own web site have been purposely deleted, and despite my never posting on their forum, they have banned my IP address from viewing it. For example, Statofshock stated in their forum that they were using the Torque engine as a gui frontend to the Unreal engine. The chances of this being true are next to zero, from a purely technical standpoint, merging the two engines would have taken up their stated dev time of a year.

Ideally, I would like your opinion of my edits to the page, and a yes or no as to wheteher they were to a standard that is acceptable to Wikipedia.

Also, if you can MSN me as supportingit@hotmail.co.uk I would appreciate it.

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks, Mark - here is a bunch of advice that I think might be helpful.

1. Although not directly relevant, the general wiki format for comments is to "sign" your posts on talk pages by adding four tildes at the end of your post (i.e., ~~~~). Wikipedia automatically substitutes your username and posting date and time for the tilde. That will help people figure out who is saying what. You can also indent responses to people's posts by adding one : before each paragraph for each level that you want to indent.
2. My guess is that the page is going to get deleted - unless there are specific press reports published by someone not related to the game, Wikipedia editors usually (but not always) recommend deletion. The general feeling is that unless there has been some press coverage, games are not notable. (For more on what "notability" means here, see here, here and here).
3. If StateofShock is a Red Planet employee, then he/she should probably not be editing the Lost Colony (game) page at all. Are you sure that he/she is, and why?
4. As to your request for an opinion on your edits, I think that you mean these two "notes" edits about the "Garage Games" forum post, but please let me know if I am wrong.[1], [2] I think including that stuff is going to be an uphill battle -- for the key Wikipedia policy on forum posts, see here. Generally, blog and forum posts aren't good sources for Wikipedia unless the blog is by someone who is clearly an otherwise published expert in their field. There is some room for argument, but as a general matter, forum stuff won't survive a challenge.
5. I'm sorry for giving you generally bad news, and would like to help. Nothing is ever cast in stone on Wikipedia, but the advice I've given above reflects most of the key policies, plus the way I've usually seen things work out. You're certainly free to argue to keep the page or to keep the forum posts, and I'll help you if I can, but you will face a serious uphill climb on both fronts -- is there some other way we can try to meet your goals in this case?
6. Does "MSN" mean instant messaging? I'm not set up to do that, but if you want, I can e-mail you.

Thanks, TheronJ 15:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm shocked! an internetter who doesnt use IM! :-) I think you have answered my questions though, and I did rethink the forums quotes, and placed a proposed Controversy section in the discussion page, but as you say, it has not been quoted in anything other than Gameshout.com as far as I can see, so I guess it will get deleted. Stateofshock is the same name as used by a staff member on the LC forums, and a forum thread indicated he was aware, also the edits he has made..... Anyway, thanks for your time and help, I really appreciate it. Cheers, Mark. OMaHTLD 15:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you want me to tell StateofShock to quit? There are several Wikipedia policies and guidelines dealing with conflicts of interest -- the short version is that anyone who works for Red Planet or a competitor is "strongly encouraged" to suggest changes on the talk pages for Red Planet and its products, and "strongly discouraged" from making the changes themselves. Thanks, TheronJ 15:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess it would be nice for Stateofshock to not be editing the main page, yes. However I wouldnt want him to stop posting on the discussion page, as he seems to be digging himself deeper. OMaHTLD 22:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

• OMaHTLD, given that the Lost Colony page has been deleted, I think we are probably done with your advocacy. I will close the advocacy page, but if you have any more questions or if there is anything else I can do for you, please let me know. If you would like to, please feel free to fill out the advocacy "follow-up survey," which you can find here. Thanks! TheronJ 16:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC)