User talk:LJ Holden/September 2010 - January 2016

File permission problem with File:Banks head and shoulder.jpg

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Animated map of New Zealand provinces

Hi there. As far as I can tell the animated map of New Zealand provinces is your work (if not, please let me know who I should be directing this message to). Currently the map shows Stewart Island as being part of Otago from 1853-61 and as part of Southland from 1861-70. I've just found out (through the local newspaper's equivalent of DYK) that Stewart Island was annexed to Southland on 10th November 1863 after some time without having any government. Daveosaurus (talk) 01:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. So post New Leinster had no provincial government until 1863? --LJ Holden 04:05, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll have to borrow McClintock's centenary history and see if he says anything about it, but it seems not; particularly after the creation of the province of Otago. This has also got me wondering as to whether the Chatham Islands were ever in a province; these days they seem to get tacked onto Canterbury or Wellington as an afterthought (I think they're in Wellington Land District; I'm not sure what electorate they're in, but vaguely recall they were associated with Lyttelton. I suppose I should look it up on Wikipedia...) Daveosaurus (talk) 11:19, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

They're now part of Rongotai (Wellington), but were Lyttelton until 1996 I think. --LJ Holden 12:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I've found out what I can from McLintock (which is not a lot) and taken the discussion to the Provinces of New Zealand talk page. Daveosaurus (talk) 06:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Hey, you may remember me from my days active on NZR articles. These days I am working on my PhD on the provincial system, and I'd just like to point out that the map is inaccurate re: New Munster and New Ulster. The boundary it shows for 1841 is actually the boundary for 1846 (New Munster incorporating the southern North Island), and vice versa. This also means that the still images on the New Munster article are inaccurate, as is the image on the New Ulster article (that is New Ulster of 1841; from 1846 to 1852, the southern portion was part of New Munster).

I should note, however, that the animated map is accurate re: New Leinster, i.e. that it should appear on the 1841 map but not the 1846 one. That said, I'm dubious whether New Leinster should even be included. The 1841 terminology was purely geographic; it served no political purpose and it is not accurate to say there was ever a New Leinster Province in the crown colony era. As for Stewart Island in the provincial era, I was looking at George Grey's despatches to the Colonial Secretary just the other day and noted that it was not included in any of the provincial boundaries when he proclaimed the new provinces in March 1853. - Axver (talk) 02:32, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey Axver, I'd very much like to read your PhD! The map is based on the information from the New Zealand Historical Atlas, so if it's inaccurate then so is the Atlas, although you're probably aware of this! :-) --LJ Holden 03:27, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

You'll have to forgive me for the extreme lateness of this reply - I suppose it speaks to how little I edit here these days. However, I was on the provinces page and noticed the maps are still inaccurate, which reminded me of the message I'd left you last year! Are you referring to the Bateman NZ Historical Atlas, ed. Malcolm McKinnon and published in 1997? Because its Map 31a is accurate and conforms to what I described above. The governors' proclamations published in newspapers on PapersPast also confirm Wikipedia's maps are muddled. I'd sort out the graphic myself if I had even the faintest clue how; it really needs to be fixed. Axver (talk) 05:29, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey Axver, sure - I will need to know what the accurate boundaries are though before I can make changes to it. --LJ Holden 06:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Cool; it's really quite a simple change, though I may not explain it with simple clarity. 1841 should show the North Island as New Ulster, the South Island as New Munster, and Stewart Island as New Leinster (though these were not provinces and had no governments - it was more a proclamation of geographical nomenclature). Under the 1846 Constitution, George Grey in March 1848 proclaimed two provinces: New Ulster would be the North Island north of a line drawn horizontally across the island from the Patea River mouth, and New Munster would be the rest of the country south of that border (i.e. this is the same border as that incorrectly shown as 1841 on the map). Is that clear at all? I could muddle things further by pointing out that a Major Richmond was sent south as a Superintendent of the "Southern District" in 1843 by FitzRoy. The Nelson Examiner rather aptly described him as "that ambiable but useless functionary"; he was meant to represent the Governor to the settlers of Wellington and Nelson. Axver (talk) 08:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Commonwealth republics

Hi. Your map of Commonwealth republics is missing Vanuatu (present on the map (west of Fiji and north-east of New Caledonia) but incorrectly coloured grey) and Kiribati (absent from the map altogether). I would fix it myself, but I can't work out how to upload a corrected version of the map to replace the existing one. Aridd (talk) 17:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, yes the map needs to be replaced.--LJ Holden 12:10, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

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99 referendum

I think you're splitting hairs when you say moving paragraphs from one article to another involves no deletion. An article has experienced the deletion of a chunk of text - in this case, significant text. With regards to the 99 referendum this information most certainly belongs in that article - although it could do with an edit. Mdw0 (talk) 00:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but the argument against deletion is surely that information has been removed from Wikipedia as a whole. However, I concede that the article could do with an edit, particularly the "Background" of the referendum, which the alternatives would come under. I'll put up a suggested change to the article on its talk page. --LJ Holden 02:33, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Each article needs to be the best it can be - both in terms of readability and quality of information. Just because someone creates a related article, that doesnt mean cannibalising and deleting information from the original to its own detriment. As for the changes to the article - Be Bold - but remember this is a political article with vested interests. If you boldly step on toes you can expect reversals - all good fun. Mdw0 (talk) 05:41, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. What do you think about a "Background" section in a re-write? --LJ Holden 05:44, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I quite like 'Divisions in the Electorate.' All the background can go in there. Mdw0 (talk) 03:28, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Chairman of Committees

Hello Lewis, I'd appreciate if you could cast your eye over Chairman of Committees (New Zealand). I wrote that article as I was expanding Frederick Merriman (politician), and to be honest, I had never even heard of that role before. There isn't a wealth of information online, so I wonder whether I got it right? Are there other relevant facts that the article ought to state? Schwede66 18:22, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Very interesting - I'd read a reference to the position before (I think in McGee's Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand) but will have another look at it. Very good article though. --LJ Holden 20:26, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the accolades. I whipped that together real quick. If you happen to come across a list of office holders, that should obviously be added to it. I have the list up to 1950 (I have a copy of Scholefield's Parliamentary History), Hugo999 has access to Wilson (1985), so there's only a handful of years missing right at the end. The article is currently nominated at DYK, so I haven't added the list up to 1950 to the article, as I want to avoid the problem of the article appearing 'half finished'. Schwede66 05:19, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Kapiti Line

I have moved or changed the templates for Paraparaumu Line to Kapiti Line. There were no restrictions on you doing it yourself as it is only the parent template "S-line" that is protected. You may want you can change all the templates in each station article to match, as they have now all become redirects. Sw2nd (talk) 15:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

John Key

Why is having the Governor-General in that infobox, considered releveant? The Governors-General weren't in most of the infoboxes of the other NZ Prime Ministers. GoodDay (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, they should be. It's as relevant as having the Queen listed in the infobox - the office exists and is constitutionally above the PM. --LJ Holden 22:48, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I just figured they weren't on the Canadian PM infoboxes & all but 2 of the Australian PM infoboxes, so I deleted. Anyways, I won't make a big fuss over it, as there's 15 commonwealth realms with GGs. GoodDay (talk) 23:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

List of Governors-General of New Zealand

Since you weighed in at Talk:List of Governors-General of New Zealand#Arrangement, I thought I'd ask you to cast an eye over the changes I've made. First, I made use of rowspan to show overlaps in monarchs and PMs. Then, I replaced the "Title" column with colour coding. I'm uncertain about my colour choices, but find-and-replace can fix that easily enough. I would like to know whether you think the basic idea works. -Rrius (talk) 03:28, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Treaty of Waitangi

Regarding the Treaty of Waitangi signature edits, what does POV IMHO mean? Although some more references are needed, wouldn't it be appropriate to include the information related to non-signatories? The very biased One New Zealand Foundation has articles that mention tribes who have received claim monies even though they aren't signatories, although more as just a compilation of information than for propaganda use. I think it is worthy of mention that the treaty wasn't signed by various groups, and yet they are treated as beholden to it in some matters.207.62.238.139 (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I didn't say that non-signatories weren't important. There is some information on how the non-signatories are treated, which doesn't square with the sub-section as it stands. BTW, POV means Point Of View, IMHO means In My Humble Opinion. --LJ Holden 22:07, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

New MP pages

If you have time before Friday evening, your help with this politics task force collaboration would be much appreciated! If you have questions, please ask them there. Schwede66 07:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Cropped-nikki-kaye-john-key-wynyard-quarter.jpg

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The creative commons notices is at the bottom of the page. --LJ Holden 19:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, not all creative commons licenses are suitable for content on Wikipedia. This one is ND (no derivatives), and that's not allowed here. I think our policy is too restrictive, but it is our policy.-gadfium 19:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Bugger. I'll contact the author. --LJ Holden 19:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

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edit conflict

oops. I just noted the AUT part. was heading to remove and you bet me to it :D Brian | (Talk) 01:51, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Officially yes until the AGM which is about a month away. But Simon has basically stood aside as a result of the election. Brian | (Talk) 02:00, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Goodo. Are you running? :-D --LJ Holden 02:08, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

LOL. I'll pass on the opportunity to have you destroy me when breakfast TV does the odd interview... :D Brian | (Talk) 02:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

You'd be fine... just tell the truth and I'll play nice ;-) --LJ Holden 02:23, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

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Note:Even if the Flickr image had a license it's unlikely to be allowed as NZ has No Freedom of Panorama for 2D images, like posters  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 22:51, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

My God this is frustrating. There's a permission e-mail loaded into the license template. I can't be bothered mucking around with getting another e-mail with a specific reference to the type of license used. --LJ Holden 19:32, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

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Re NZR DL class Requested Move

LJ Holden. You need to provide a rationale for the move and sign your move request with ~~~~ to feed the RM bot. Absent a rationale and date/time stamps, the RM bot gets an upset tummy. --Mike Cline (talk) 01:00, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:NZR K class 919.jpg

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Your sig

Hi LJ, could you add a link to your signature pointing to your user or user talk page? It's required by the guidelines and it makes contacting you much easier for other users. Thanks for understanding, Jafeluv (talk) 13:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Fixed :-) --LJ Holden 20:16, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:NZR mid 1939 poster.jpg

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1841 Legislative Council

Hi Lewis, not sure whether you've got the LC on your watchlist. If not, can I please draw your attention to the article's talk page? I'd value your opinion. Schwede66 05:04, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

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Edit war

Dont think this needs to be said as your an oldtimer ...but being fair both involved parties being warned.Moxy (talk) 21:25, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

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Sian Elias - your revert of my edit

While the material that I removed is cited, as you noted in your edit summary, it is either direct quotation or close paraphrasing of material from the NZ Herald article. As such, it requires in-text attribution or else it is plagiarism and violates copyright. It would be fair use to quote it, but not to include substantially verbatim quotes from the article with only a footnote. When I have some more time I intend to work on the article and may well include some of this material with proper attribution. Feel free to restore it with such attribution, but please do not simply revert my edit again. Neljack (talk) 07:27, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I am rather mystified by your suggestion that I was threatening you. That was certainly not my intention - I was just requesting that you not restore the material again because it was a copyright violation. I have no problem with you putting the copyright tag on, though I have extended it to cover the "Contentious cases" section too, since I removed that material on copyright grounds too. I note that the copyright policy only requires tagging in the case of suspected copyright violation. In the case of a clear violation, which I believe this was, there is nothing in the policy that requires it. Neljack (talk) 05:27, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I have never doubted your good faith. I asked you not to revert it because it was a copyright violation, as I had explained, and obviously violating copyright can cause legal problems. You seem to be the one failing to assume good faith when you say: "Your statement that I must not revert your edits was obviously not in good faith." Neljack (talk) 07:41, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I hope you will accept my assurance that my comments have been made in good faith, and not because of any malice or animosity towards you (as we haven't crossed paths before, it hardly could be. If I have fallen into error, it is that of a relatively inexperienced editor, not a bad faith one.

More importantly, I thought I should inform you that I have removed some material from the "criticism" section of Supreme Court of New Zealand that was added by you, based on the same concerns of direct quotation or close paraphrasing being used without proper in-text attribution. I have added the appropriate templated message on the talk page. I am a little concerned at finding another example of this from material you have added. I hope you will ensure you don't do this again and review any other instances of this that you think you may have already added in other articles. Neljack (talk) 08:24, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you on the QC's comments. I was intending to rework that part in, as well as possibly some of the other stuff, when I had the time. But if you get there first that's all for the good. Thanks, Neljack (talk) 21:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Apology

I've just seen your comment on Talk:Supreme Court of New Zealand and want to apologise for giving the impression that I was threatening you with a block. The message was actually automatically generated by placing Template:Cclean on the talk page, as WP:Copyright violations says to do when removing material from an article for copyright reasons. I don't think I even read the message and I certainly never thought there was any question of you being blocked. Also, thanks for adding back in some of the material - it's good stuff and looks fine now. Regards, Neljack (talk) 04:46, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:DSC 2665 at Wellington.jpg

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February 2014

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This is the flag im promoting and as a nzer some on here ive never seen

why does this keep being removed? it is being promoted i belive some of the others need to removed as well if that is the case — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevymtnz (talk • contribs) 06:18, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Some others do need to be removed, because like yours they're uncited. --LJ Holden 22:20, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

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Elections and WP:COI

I know you have a long history on Wikipedia and have contributed tremendously. But given that you're an active election candidate, you might want to step back a bit from editing pages for politicians and the electorate you're contesting. While the edits you've just made to Russel Norman and Rimutaka (New Zealand electorate) are good and entirely uncontroversial, the fact that you're doing them might not be, and party hacks won't bother to check the facts before leaping to conclusions about your integrity. Historical information can wait a couple of weeks, surely? --IdiotSavant (talk) 11:20, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough. --LJ Holden 11:25, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

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Sir William McAlpine...

...maintains he was born in January 12th 1936!! I help on his Fawley railway, and know him..

Ok. My edit was to remove an irrelevant sentence (which was a dig at him for having his own railway). --LJ Holden 00:45, 11 January 2016 (UTC)