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Now I need a mirror!

If you haven't noticed, my posts on the RefDesk have been becoming more and more hostile, or at least adversarial in nature. I don't want to be hostile, but my mood seems to be getting the better of me. I have great respect for your opinion, so I'd really appreciate if you could give me an opinion as to what you think.

There are certain things in my (real) life that are frustrating the hell out of me, and perhaps I'm taking it out on wiki.

First I got "sick and tired" of being lotted together with all those guilt ridden Europeans who seem to believe that "white" people like you and I "don't belong" in our respective countries. (BTW, I was once on a train ride with a certain Chinese-Singaporean who seemed to know a lot about this stuff...anyway, according to the "White Australia Policy" Jews were not considered white. Not really all that surprising though.) I'm an unapologetic Canadian, and despite whatever injustices may have been perpetrated against Canadian Aboriginals, I'm honestly sick of having to excuse myself for living where I do.

I also seem to have "had it" with those constant questions (implying at least): How can an intelligent person believe in God? The first few times I tried, at great length, to explain that a belief, being a belief, doesn't depend on any proof whatsoever.

If it were one simple question I'd leave it there. But the RefDesk seems to offer a constant barrage of ridicule for those who believe in a Supreme Being.

I tried my best, by making an analogy with homosexuality, that the same way it's simply unnacceptable to ridicule a person for their sexuality (what goes on in their bedroom), it's similarly unnacceptable to ridicule a person for their faith (what goes on in their mind). Of course my analogy seems to have gone over everyone's head.

I know you made a very, very polite inquiry as to my sexuality a little while ago, and I never bothered to give you a direct response.

Well, I happen to be a heterosexual (I was born that way!). But I won't pander and tell you that homosexuality is all fine and dandy in my head. Honestly, to use another analogy, the idea of two men being sexually intimate with each other is as appetizing to me as taking a bowl of chocolate fudge ice cream, sprinkling it generously with granulated garlic, and topping it with several sliced dill pickles, a few well placed anchovies, and paprika.

I hope you understand my point. Your choice of toppings on your ice cream is entirely yours, and I'd be the last one to tell you that "I don't see your ice cream as natural". At the same time, it would be an insult to your intelligence for me to pander and tell you "I'm perfectly ok with male homosexuality, the whole idea of two men having sex doesn't disagree with me at all...".

I'm sure (or at least I hope) you'll appreciate my candour. In any case, I hope you'll appreciate the fact that I see your "sexual orientation" as no more strange or unnacceptable as one having a peculiar taste in ice cream.

I just hope that from all our communications I've erased at least one particular myth: The myth that the term "compassionate conservative" is an oxymoron.

But back to my original point, I consider you a kindred spirit, and I have great respect for your opinions as to my behaviour/writing. I'm flattered that you consider me to be something of a mirror, but I need a mirror too!

I'd be grateful if you can offer me some of your perspective on my general style, but more importantly, the substance of what I've been writing lately.

I know there may be certain things you may want to discuss beyond the ears of other Wikipedians, and I'm not sure this is the proper place to put an email, so I'll simply put mine here, and as soon as you get it, please kindly erase it...but don't worry, I'll erase it after a short while too.

G'day, mate! Loomis 22:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Cheers, mate!

Hey Jack. I haven't seen you much around the RefDesk lately. I hope everythings going fine with you, and you're just taking a well deserved break. (Believe me, I can totally relate. While I love wiki, it can drive you a bit nuts after a while. We all need a wikibreak every once in a while.) In any case, hope all is well and that I'll see you around whenever you feel ready to make an appearance. Our debates have always been invigorating and I look forward to more in the future. Loomis 19:50, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

No Rush!

I'm glad that your absence is for a good reason. Please take as much time as you need. I know that if I was as lucky, I'd probably do much the same. In fact I find myself in a bit of a similar situation. I met this Aussie girl in London nearly 10 years ago, the sweetest thing I've ever met. She's Italian and so she's probably out celebrating the football thing. I teasingly call her my sweet little wog (I know the term might be a bit derogatory down-under, but since it's unheard of here, it's nothing but a term of endearment between us). She's from Sydney and goes to school in Newcastle, and after all these years we still chat and talk on the phone as much as possible (which also explains why I'm so interested in and have such a romantic image of Australia). So we actually have something in common there! We both know this special person from out of town, unfortunately for me out of town is really, really far away! I've always been planning to one day come and visit her, but like you once mentioned I believe, I too have a bit of a "phobia"...well maybe phobia is a bit strong of a word...I just tend to find overseas trips to be a bit overwhelming, so like a chicken I've been putting it off forever now. I'm really glad you're happy, so enjoy it as much as you can, and no rush to write back, as I know everything's fine with you. All the best! Loomis 09:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Coincidentally, just as I got your inquiry, I just sent off a response. It took a while because I had to do a bit of thinking of what exactly I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it. I'm sure you can relate, it takes me quite a bit of rehearsing before I get things right. Loomis 01:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

A big hello to you

Hello there I have writen messages all over the shop for you to read but the thing is you see I'm new to this and I've probably mucked this all up so firstly my deepest apologies for this. I'll get on with my reason for emailing you now. From what I gather your a descendand of Tyrone power well so am I and what I'm trying to do is gather more info on our family lines. If you don't mind me asking which side and where. I'm from the Power/Harrington side that started in Ireland then moved over to England around the time Ty senior was born (I think can never be 100% of the exact time as the Harringtons are always sketchy with exact details). I would be so greatful for any info you can give me as our family travelled everywhere and because of this I don't know where to begin. Thats why I'd try the Tyrone Power link first because I slightly have a better Idea there although I havn't found so far the exact link between Tyrone Power and my great grand mother Mary Catherine Power (I am led to belive that they were cousins) But I am one of those people who needs 100% proof when it comes to family lines. Also what is this I hear about the french descendants, I never knew there was any, that was something our side never knew. Any way I'm glad I stumbled upon the Ty site here because your the first relative I don't know who I have contacted and if you dont mind I'd like to keep doing so. Take care--Fairy.dust 02:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see your Talk Page for my response. JackofOz 02:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


Sorry that I wrote to you about Tyrone Power. I definately saw a comment that you were related to Tyrone Power.(Can't remember where though) May I suggest you check that no one else has edited your comments or is even using your user name. Thanks sorry again.--Fairy.dust 21:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I did it was vey late in England when I wrote it sorry to have done this. Nice to chat to another fellow irishman though.--Fairy.dust 21:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Raymond Lewenthal

I added some data about Lewenthal's birth year to the article and some data about his movies on the discussion page.Malikf 23:26, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

A message

Thanks for your thoughtful and encourging words. I'll be sure to remember them moving forward. As you can see, this Wikipedian is back and well rested :-) --HappyCamper 03:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for alerting me to the change. The CNN article used in most sourcing said (in its 6:05 PM version) that Spillane had died Tuesday. Coupled with the report of his death from a funeral home, which reports are usually late, I took that to mean July 11. Mea Culpa, although I think it reasonable not to expect the CNN writer to be unaware of the current day of the week. Anyway, I will apologize to the folks I messaged in error. It's a very good thing you warned me, as I'm not in the habit of re-reading obituaries. Best wishes, Xoloz 17:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

anderson query

could you tell me what your source was for michael anderson's death? my email is <email removed>

best aye

Andrew McKie Obituaries Editor Daily Telegraph

19vii06 -- 11:43, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I sent the following response:

Hello Andrew
As far as I can tell, he has not died, and I've changed the Wikipedia article accordingly now.
This sort of thing sometimes happens on an interactive site such as Wikipedia. An unsourced piece of information is put on by somebody, and others assume they're acting in good faith (which is one of the pillars of Wikipedia) and that a citation is on the way. The reference to his death first appeared on the Recent Deaths page. I noticed it, assumed it was genuine, and updated his article. However since a citation has still not been forthcoming, we're assuming it's disinformation (whether intentional or accidental). Possibly a confusion with some other, less notable, Michael Anderson.
Thanks for keeping tabs on us. If you're not already a Wikipedian yourself, please consider becoming one. It really is a great concept. I'm an avid reader of obituaries myself, and your paper's obits regularly appear in Australian papers such as The Age (Melbourne) and the Sydney Morning Herald.
By the way, I've removed your email address from my talk page. Wikipedia has a huge world-wide readership, and publicising private or work emails is a surefire way to get loads of unwanted spam.


veery cute (hrmph). Grutness...wha? 06:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

A similar "No Rush, Just an Enquiry" note

Hey Jack,

I just want to make sure you got my email that I sent the other day. If you have, but haven't had the time to respond, I completely understand. I just hope it's for a good reason again, that you simply haven't found the time to respond to a wiki friend because you're just too damn busy spending time with your new found love! If that's the case, take all the time in the world. I'm truly happy for you.

But just in case you haven't received my response, just remember this: I've come to the conclusion long ago that you're nothing less than a decent, kind-hearted fellow, and that pretty much anything you tell me won't change that conclusion. We all have our demons (yours truly in particular! Just wait until I have the courage to reveal mine!) Yet like yours, my demons aren't likely demons at all. Rather, like yours, my "demons" are simply the result of the fact that I'm a less-than-perfect human being. Just as I've concluded about you, I'm confident that I too am a simple, decent, kind-hearted human being, warts and all.

In any case, if you've been casually observing the RefDesk, you'll see that I've been trying my best to learn from you and to not over-react to even the most bizarre of posts. I think I've been doing a rather good job!

I disagree with many folks at the RefDesk, but I respect them all. I've even disagreed with you on quite a few occasions, but the disagreements have been purely intellectual, and just as I respect everyone elses views, no matter how different they may be from mine, I obviously respect yours in the same fashion.

Anyway, real life is far more important than Wikipedia. If your "real life" happens to be taking a terrific turn for the good, then I not only understand, but INSIST that you enjoy it to its fullest, and ignore the intellectual masturbation that is the Wikipedia RefDesk.

I'll not only understand, but even more, be terrifically pleased that you've found something truly fulfilling.

Nonetheless, it would still be nice to get a note from you once in a while. :)

All the best,


Hey Jack,

As always you make a good point. I take your comments very seriously, (perhaps too seriously!) but nonetheless you've obviously taken on the role of something of a "Wikipedia mentor" for me.

As such, and as a person who is constantly self-analyzing, I now feel rather silly, or at least uncomfortable with myself, for having "gossiped" about my feelings for certain members. Right now I'm feeling some serious dissonance. While I still feel what I feel, I never seem to be able to live up to that standard that I set for myself, basically to do the right thing.

Of course gossiping is wrong, but then again, so is keeping your feelings bottled up on the inside without some healthy outlet to let them out, which is what I tend to do in the real world. I guess that just proves your point, that while on Wikipedia I tend to be an overly outspoken, confrontational wise-ass, for someone to make that judgment about the "real me" would be totally wrong. As I've said before, in real life I'm quite the opposite, I tend to take a bit too much shit from people without responding appropriately and putting them in their place.

For example, at work, there's this one extremely irritating guy (who happens to be my cousin) who doesn't treat me with nearly the amount of respect I deserve, yet I still haven't developed the courage to open my mouth and give him a long-deserved: "Fuck off!".

So instead I use Wikipedia as a bit of an outlet for my frustrations, as I tend to be far better at expressing my feelings in writing than in speech.

I really don't know what else to say. Your comments have left me rather conflicted. I suppose I'll give Wikipedia a few more shots and try to get things right, but if I simply can't, then I simply can't, and at some point it may be time for me to just forget about the whole Wikipedia thing.

Of course, as you've said many times, you're not perfect either, and perhaps I'm taking your comments too seriously. Perhaps the person in question actually does deserve a good dressing down.

I really don't know. I'll give the whole thing some more thought, (and as a neurotic, probably far more thought than necessary,) and see what conclusions I come to. Maybe Wikipedia just isn't for me...I really don't know.

Take care, Jack.


hey jack

where is the proper place to say "hey you seem kinda smart maybe we could chat sometimes on a medium other than the wikipedia reference desk"

just popping in to say that

Toko loko 01:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm Back! And mad as ever!

Hey Jack!
By 'mad' I mean it in both senses. But yes, feel free to interpret that a a full confession of my own insanity. My computer's up and running once again, and I'm ready to spread as much mischief as I can manage.
You'd all miss me? I doubt that. Perhaps you would, and a couple of others, but I really don't think I'm being paranoid by saying that for the most part, I'm not nearly the most well liked, or the most well respected of contributors. Not to worry though, I've decided to stick around for a while, whether they like it or not.
I think I may have misexpressed my feelings a couple of notes ago, and understandably therefore, you misinterpreted them. I know I spoke of one particular individual. But reading your comment, I realize that my problem doesn't simply lie in the fact that one particular individual pisses me off, rather, it's the fact that a good chunk of the world thinks the way he does, which doesn't merely irritate me, but actually frightens me a great deal.
If it were one mere mental-case who got on my nerves, and pretty much eveyone elses, it would be a rather easy task to do as you say and simply laugh it all off, as I'd have pretty much the rest of the world to back me up. But that's not the case here. This particular individual isn't the real problem for me. It would be ridiculous of me to place such importance on the idiotic statements of one, and only one particular arse. Rather, it's the general attitude of a huge segment of society that this prick seems to do so well at representing that's the real problem. The inmates are running the assylum here, Jack. With every newspaper I read, with every news telecast I watch, every piece of graffiti I witness; with pretty much every medium of mass communication, I get the same frightening message.
To sum it up: The Holocaust was a terrible, horrific thing which should never be repeated, yet the Jews seem to be milking the whole thing a bit too much. In fact, they're doing much worse than milking it, they're actually using the sympathy they've acquired as currency to rationalize doing the same to others as was done to them; and there's nothing more dangerous than a group of people with chips on their shoulders, and vengeance for past misdeads embedded in their minds. After all, Nazism only developed in Germany because the Germans were so harshly treated after WWI, right? Similarly, the Jews, and the Israelis in particular, are going through the same process. They're slowly evolving into those very people who so brutally attempted to annihilate them. In short, with its "racist", "apartheid" policies involving "ethnic cleansing" (really? Are entire Palestinian families actually being round up and shot?) and "crimes against humanity", Israel is actually regarded as the reincarnation of Nazi Germany.
Jack, you must now think I'm really losing it, but think about it. How many times have you read the same piece of graffiti: "Zionism = Nazism", or in simpler picture form: (Star of David) = (Swastika)?
Old fashioned style anti-semitism is one thing, and, to be honest, no matter what I say on wiki, personally, I've rarely been victimized by that brand of anti-semitism, and even then, it's been extremely mild. Yes, a couple of months ago I was called a "mother-fucking-dirty-Jew-bastard" over the phone, which had me freaking on the inside for about 15 minutes, but the feeling passed, and I forgot about it in no time. Several years ago, not realizing that I was a Jew, while with a group of people a certain individivual started going on about how he believed that the Holocaust was a hoax. But that actually amused me more than anything else. My point is that Canada is a great place for Jews to live, as true direct, anti-Jewish anti-semitism is a rarity.
The Holocaust seems to have told the world that it's unnacceptable to hate Jews simply because they're Jews. And that of course is a good thing. Yet in the most insidious of ways, anti-semitism has transformed itself and still thrives, only by a different name: anti-Zionism.
Of course the natural reaction to a charge of anti-semitism-by-means-of-anti-Zionism is a stern refutation: "I have nothing against Jews, I merely disagree with Israeli policy". Now Israel, just like any other country, is far from perfect. They make mistakes like any other country does. Is it right to occupy the West Bank? In some ways yes, in some ways no. Yes because it's believed to be necessary for Israel's security, and no because it's wrong to hold a foreign people captive under military rule. Israelis themselves disagree on these policies. Myself, though I feel the occupation is necessary, I constantly struggle with it in my mind. No, it's not right to hold a foreign people captive. Unfortunately in this case it's necessary.
To display my point, I just read a rather witty editorial cartoon in my local newspaper. Two Jews are having a conversation: -"So the Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel from Gaza?" -"Yes, apparently they are." -"So the Hezballah is firing rockets into Israel from that part of southern Lebanon that Israel withdrew from in 2000?" -"Yes, that too." -"So what about the West Bank?" -"Oh, all is quiet there, we haven't withrawn to the 1967 borders there yet".
Should, while acting in self-defence, Israel be bombing Beirut? Again, both sides, yes and no, have valid points. In fact I was debating the issue with my father the other day. I actually thought that Lebanon, with a strong Christian population, should not have its government punished for failing to do what it simply cannot do. My father argued the opposite.
You yourself mentioned that you often disagree with Israeli policy. Well, Jack, Israel is a country of seven million people, and Jews being Jews, that means at least seven million different opinions about Israeli policy! :)
Yes, many, who say "I have nothing against Jews, yet I often disagree with Israeli policy" mean it in the pure, honest sense that you and indeed I do, meaning that they very simply disagree or question the morality of this or that decision of the Israeli government of the day, whether it's right to bomb Beirut, whether it's right for Israel to build itself a security fence, whether its right for Israel to hold on to the territories, whether it's right for Israel to engage in "targeted assasinations" of known terrorist leaders, whether, even if such things are right, they justify the tragic collateral damage to innocent civilians...these are all REALLY REALLY TOUGH calls, and I'm quite sure that many the Israeli government member has lost many a nights' sleep pondering these moral dilemmas.
On the other hand, there are those who use the "I have nothing against Jews, yet I often disagree with Israeli policy" as a far more duplicitous, more disingenuous way of transforming their anti-semitism into a purely "political" and "human rights" matter, rather than what it really is under the surface, pure anti-semitism, reformatted to fit sensibilities of the 21st century. The policies they're concerned with are not policies such as whether or not it's right to bomb Beirut, but rather the policies of whether or not Israel has any right to self-defense at all. It's not whether or not the Israeli policy decision to build a security fence is right or not, but whether or not the Israeli policy of protecting its citizens from terrorism is right at all. It's not whether Israeli policy to stay in the territories is right or not, but rather, whether Israeli policy to stay in Israel is right or not. In short, their highly rhetorical question is simply whether or not the "policy" of the State of Israel to exist is right or not, with the clear rhetorical answer being no. No, because the Jews, not just Israelis, but all Jews who support Israel, having evolved into their own worst enemies, the Nazis, are clearly a threat to world security. Throw some inflamatory and highly historicaly sensitive, yet absurdly innacurate vocabulary, such as "apartheid", "ethnic cleansing", "crimes against humanity" and "Zionism = Nazism", point out that Israel has nukes, and a good few billion people around the world begin to entertain thoughts that the State of Israel may indeed be "The Fourth Reich" that is so obviously being implied.
Just take a brief look at the Wiki RefDesk humanities section. Count how many questions concern Israel, (or Judaism...though the questions on Judaism are usually far more respectful, so perhaps I shouldn't count them). In any case, take a brief look at the posts. Now count the questions that involve homosexuality. How many do you see? None? (Actually one since I last checked, and look at the unconditional support you got from EVERY wiki member on that one. Not that you don't deserve it.) But tell me honestly Jack, if the subject of all these questions were not "Israel" (or Judaism), but rather a question about homosexuality like the one submitted, and skimming through the posts you found some decent supportive remarks, some ignorant yet innocent ones, some absuredly bigoted ones, so absurd that you can't help but laugh, and, at the same time, quite a few vile and offensive ones, ones that include purely fabricated claims that you KNOW are not true, and are obviously meant to do nothing more than hurt; remarks like, say: "Gay men are by their very nature pedophiles, and therefore children should be kept away from them at all costs"; or "It is a key element in the "Gay agenda" to convince as many "normal" men that they are in fact homosexual perverts." Well, you get my point. I wouldn't blame you at all for "losing it" now and again.
And this is where I respectfully disagree with your kind suggestion that I should simply relax and ignore it all. Well of course I should, but where I disagree is in the suggestion that it would be all that simple and easy. I can't help but say that due to the sheer volume of hurtful remarks that are aimed at my people, at least at the RefDesk, compared to any homophobic remarks (I've been here for some six months and I don't recall one,) it might be a bit more difficult in my case to simply relax and avoid confrontation. Of course I still strongly value your opinion on the matter.
It's just not politically acceptable these days to pick on or make cruel, ignorant remarks about homosexuals as it once was, (and it once was!) and hopefully never will be again. Yet, apparently, it is indeed politically acceptable to pick on Jews, though not the traditional way, but via the anti-Israel route.
It used to be ok to fabricate lies about Jews, such as the fact that we have horns on our heads or that a key ingredient in our passover "matzah" is the blood of Christian infants. That's not ok anymore. Instead, now it's ok to claim that Israelis (and therefore Jews), get the same sort of sadistic pleasure out of purposely killing Arab babies, and in torturing and mistreating the rest of those "subhuman" Arab pests that should be driven out of the region sooner or later. Same bullshit, new century.
Well, that's it for my rambling.
Just a final remark, and an apology if I've been mistaken. All this time, for some reason I had assumed that you were "completely" (for lack of a better term) gay or homosexual. However, having picked up on various clues here and there, I realize that I may have been mistaken. You've never clearly referred to yourself as "gay" or "homosexual". All you've mentioned is that you've had both homosexual AND heterosexual experiences, and that "lately", your partners "tend" to be male. You've also pointed out how deep your feeling was for your ex. I realize I may have jumped to conclusions, and that perhaps what you seem to be saying is that you consider yourself to be bisexual, not strictly homosexual at all. Yet these days, it seems that you've devoted your entire love-life to men, not simply to whoever, he or she, who you happen to take a fancy for, which once again leads me to the conclusion that you are indeed telling me that you're "strictly" gay.
In any case, it all doesn't really matter. Perhaps, like the rest of us, you don't really have it completely settled, either way, in your head. All I meant to say with this note is that I apologize if I may have misread your (very subtle!) clues.
Regardless, have a great rest of the week, Jack.

Age of Oz

It seems you have had quite a life. Do you mind telling how old you are? Sorry if it's offensive. I only want to know because I want to know where you got the time to do the things you have done. (You don't look that old)

I don't mind admitting my age, and I've done so more than once around here. But first of all, would you have the common courtesy to identify yourself? JackofOz 22:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes I will identify myself. Sorry I am not too good with this Wiki stuff. You must have a lot of talent on this site to be able to do the things you do. My name is Dan. How are you doin?Dan Bischoff 13:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Wow, how did you know I was from Adelaide? You must be psychic! Thanks for your kind words and advice. You're 55? You don't look it!
I've got stuff on my user page now so check it out if you want. Dan Bischoff 12:50, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Graham Faulkner

Hello JackofOz. I saw your question about Mr Faulkner, from last April, on the Brother Sun, Sister Moon discussion page and I thought that I would leave this message in case you hadn't heard anything from anyone else. About a month ago I was looking up this fine film on IMDb and came accross this on the films message boards [[1]]. Of course this could be a hoax but in spite of the last two postings by osloj it seemed legit to me. Well, I hope that this was of some interest and if somebody else already hooked you up with this info I apologize for taking up your time. Cheers MarnetteD | Talk 03:29, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Copied to Talk:Brother Sun, Sister Moon. JackofOz 07:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Indigenous Australian languages

I noticed your change to the 'Languages' section of Indigenous Australians. While you're correct to point out that Meriam Mir is generally held to be a Papuan language (though the work to prove this conclusively has not yet been done), the preceding passage should have said 'indigenous languages of Australia', (as per the article title) and not 'Australian Aboriginal languages', thus removing the need for your correction. I've made the correction to the passage and also (manually) reverted your change. I hope you're in agreement. Dougg 06:27, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Bruno Walter Writings?

Hello! How about mentioning his writings, e.g. books, essays and autobiography (see the german version) in the article? I'm german, so I'm not sure whether it would be ok to write those german titles pasted below untranslated into an english article:


  • Gustav Mahler's III. Symphonie. In: Der Merker 1 (1909), 9–11
  • Mahlers Weg: ein Erinnerungsblatt. In: Der Merker 3 (1912), 166–171
  • Über Ethel Smyth: ein Brief von Bruno Walter. In: Der Merker 3 (1912), 897–898
  • Kunst und Öffentlichkeit. In: Süddeutsche Monatshefte (Oktober 1916), 95–110
  • Beethovens Missa solemnis. In: Münchner Neueste Nachrichten (30. Oct. 1920), Beethoven suppl., 3–5
  • Von den moralischen Kräften der Musik. Wien 1935
  • Gustav Mahler. Wien 1936
  • Bruckner and Mahler. In: Chord and Discord 2/2 (1940), 3–12
  • Thema und Variationen - Erinnerungen und Gedanken. Stockholm 1947
  • Von der Musik und vom Musizieren. Frankfurt 1957
  • Mein Weg zur Anthroposophie. In: Das Goetheanum 52 (1961), 418–21
  • Briefe 1894–1962. Hg. L.W. Lindt, Frankfurt a.M. 1969

What do you think?

Thanks Bagradian 07:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for the 'chins up' Jack! I couldn't resist a little rant after that enthalpy/entropy thing! Rentwa 19:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Opera Australia

Seems as if we've been working on this article simultaneously. I removed more stuff from the most recent vandal, corrected typos and added links + italics. Unfortunately, it wouldn't let me save them. Orbicle 12:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for fixing my horrible spelling on the Moonlight Sonata Article.--Seadog--fly on....littlewing

 I Seadog hereby award you (in the form of a box, The Dancing Happy Daisy award, for your countless (yet great) edits in many diverse subjects (and grammer fixings, Cheers!
Whoa!! --HappyCamper 03:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
That is one awesome award I must say. :-) --HappyCamper 05:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Citation about the limerick

sorry :), I got a screen name now. Dallas67 16:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. JackofOz 20:10, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


  The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Your service to Wikipedia is most deserving of this barnstar. Good job! Sharkface217 21:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

You're very welcome. By the way, would you happen to know much about United States-Australia relations? I started this a while ago and have been slowly updating this article, but it's nowhere near the quality I need it to be. Also, as I don't know much about Australia (in general), let alone the relations of the US and Australia.... If you could spare the time, helping me update this page would be most helpful. Thanks! Sharkface217 22:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi mate. I've added that page to my watchlist (currently at about 2,900 articles !! - I really must have a cull when I get some spare time). You've already mentioned the first 3 things that occurred to me: the common language and British heritage; Free Trade Agreement; and Iraq. Our strong links really started happening during WW2, when the US helped us out at the Battle of the Coral Sea; then there was the ANZUS alliance; we supported you guys in the Vietnam War; Harold Holt took us "all the way with LBJ"; and it's been growing steadily ever since. Some would say we've now gone too far, to the point of an overt and unapologetic Americanisation of Australia (MacDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut, Starbucks everywhere you turn; and the majority of commercial free-to-air TV programs are from over there). It's not too surprising that the term "the USA's deputy sherriff" is frequently bandied about. I'm on a roll now, so I'd better quit before this becomes a rant. Cheers. JackofOz 23:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks man. This help is greatly appreciated (United States-Australia relations is one of my most important contributions). Sharkface217 23:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay

I've just refuted a statement you made last year at Talk:Pavlova. I'll try to be more prompt in future.- gadfium 08:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hurry back soon!

Hi there, Jack, I read your message at the RD about moving to the countryside. Happy retirement! This is of course great news for WP since the quantity of your edits will be tenfold in the future now. Let me take this opportunity to say that I appreciate your contributions at the RD, and also the friendly and personal tone of voice in your posts. I just saw that you are a member of the kindness campaign, which I didn't even know existed. The RD definitely needs editors like you, and I hope you hurry back soon. Cheers, happy moving, and have a sunny November!---Sluzzelin 06:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, Sluzz. It was much appreciated after a very stimulating but very exhausting weekend. Although I can call myself "retired" now, I'll still be working from home as a consultant 2-3 days a week for at least the next 9 months, so my Wiki-world won't quite be 10 times as large, but I will certainly be able to devote a lot more time to WP than I have up till now. And other things - such as the Great Australian Work of Non-Fiction. I've had a number of ideas cooking away in my brain for years, and now, at last, I'll be able to put them into practice. Thanks again. JackofOz 23:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Minor favor

Hey Jack, hope the move went well. Again concerning my US Australia relations article, I need an Australian wikipedian to vote here (near the bottom) for the major expansion of my article by Aussi Wikipedians.

Thanks! Sharkface217 03:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for helping me at the reference desk, I asked the S.M.O.M. question. Your help is apreciated. :-) | AndonicO Talk 19:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Australian collaboration of the fortnight

Hi. You voted for United States-Australia relations for WP:ACOTF. It has been selected, so please help to improve the article in any way you can. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 13:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)



Thanks for the great Wikipedia page you have. I enjoyed its somewhat quirky but always interesting content.

Fred <email removed>

Thanks Fred. Feedback is always welcome. I've removed your email to prevent you from being spammed. Cheers/Jack

Rules for deletion

Would you care to comment on my proposed Ref Desk Rules for Deletion: [2] ? I would like to build a consensus on which rules should be followed. StuRat 07:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays JackofOz! | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 01:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
  May you and your family have a Merry Christmas, as well as any other Holiday you may celebrate. I hope that warmth, good cheer, and love surround you during these special days. May God bless you during the Holidays. | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 01:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC) 135px

Well then, I hope you can make up for the lost time. Happy New Year Jack. :-) | AndonicO Talk | Sign Here 12:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Fatherland and Motherland

Sir, you wrote ("patrie" means fatherland (from L. pater = father), despite having feminine gender grammatically) as a correction of my "It is LA patrie, to the French France is femminin and therefore " the motherland" To me as a Dutchman my country is my "vaderland/fatherland" Russians on the other hand have a motherland!". It is an interesting problem! The French speak of "La France", personify it with "marianne", a fair maiden. The Russians speak of their "Narodna", the motherland or "mother Russia", would you translate "Narodna Ruskya" (pardon my Rusian) as "Little father Russia" despite the original meaning? The French and Russians think of theit countries as femminin enteties and to you and me our countries are male. When I translate I consider this: what translation does most justice to the original meaning , sentiment and (political) message?
My compliments with your page, I enjoyed the poetry! Robert Prummel 14:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S. On my own Dutch Wiki page ([3]) I put an Oscar Wilde portrait in a userbox. Template:Gebruikersbox

Hi, Robert. It is an odd thing indeed to have a feminine word that means "fatherland". Vive la langue française étrange! Despite the personification of France as Marianne, and the classic depiction of France as a bare-breasted woman holding aloft the blazing tricolor in the climax of battle, the writer of La Marseillaise chose not to use any of these cultural references, but preferred the specific word "patrie", which is clearly cognatic with the Latin word for "father". Maybe "fatherland" is not the best possible translation, but I think that "motherland" is even more distant. All I can tell you is what our own page on La Marseillaise says: the official English translation, according to the website of the French President himself, is "fatherland". That said, I recognise that translation of poetry is a difficult, nay impossible task. If you go for a literal translation, you lose the poetry. If you go for a set of words that more closely equates to the rhythm and music and feeling in the original, you lose the precise meaning. The French President's website apparently prefers the former solution; but you'll find various other translations all over the web, many of them making no reference to fatherland, motherland, or anything like those words. By the way, "narodna" is grammatically feminine in Russian, so there's no conflict with "motherland" in that case. Cheers. JackofOz 23:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Cheers indeed! I just finished a bottle of Spanish wine (Rioja) to accompany a slice of Argentine beef bought in a Dutch shop. In these days there are no borders anymore. It occurs to me that the use of language gets mixed as well, all over the internet I find the word "honor" and I have been tought English by an Oxford graduate... I enjoy teasing Australians by remarking "Aahh you Australians and therefore English". (In the voice of the Prince of Wales). Quite often the answer is a loud "Ay bludy well aint mate". It is nice to meet a more sophisticated Australian! Your excertions on the gender of "La France" are quite convincing, yet, you are an Australian who speaks French, I am Dutch and I speak French, the webmasters of Monsieur Chirac are Frenchmen who speak "Franglais" (A new laguage). I understand from your homepage that we are booth suspectable to the nuances of gender in language and daily life.To me those who speak of "mother earth" are different from those who talk about what Gore Vidal calls the (masculine) "Sky-God". The difference is quite profoud; would you fight harder for "Mother Australia" or "The Commonwealth of Australia?

Does a Frenchman who speaks of "la France" connect to the Latin word "patres" or does he think of LA Marseillaise, LA France and the very feminin barebreasted "Marianne" that he has glued to his letters and postcards all his life?
I am a Dutchman. You are an Australian. I suggest that we send an E-mail to the chancellor of the Legion of Honour to settle the matter once and for all.

Pardon my English, I have found out that alcohol, taken in sufficient quantities, induces all the symptoms of drunkenness...

Faithfully yours,

Robert Prummel 21:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC) Groningen, The Netherlands

P.S. Having read all of Oscar Wilde's works and published letters I am in awe of an award for " Random kindness". What impressed me most in "Saint Oscar" was his kindness... A hard act to follow!

Carmen Lawrence

I note your recent edit at Carmen Lawrence. This article has been the subject of a minor edit tussle between myself and a series of redlinked IP addresses or short term user names. While this is occurring any appropriate encyclopaedic content may become a casualty. I have made substantial changes to the article and nearly all these remain. Several sentences seem to be important to an anonymous editor who has questioned my agenda, not my reasons, in removing them. The editor (or editors) is literate and sensible, but not willing to adopt a user name.

Your edit was after anon's, but is one I had reworded. No substantial objection to this , except I don't think this is the place for prose or side notes. "She was the first female Premier of Australia.", or simple statements of fact are what is required. I try to think of reader, who may not have your command of the language or the time for anything but the answer. Put it as a footnote.

If you have a position on this article's edits, I would invite you to join the discussion. Shyness is not, I suspect, your predisposition. Otherwise, I apologise if you are caught up in this.

Yours faithfully, Fred 13:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


I won't reverse your edit, but Killen's post at VPEC was regarded as a sinceure at the time, a dignified way for Fraser to get him out of the political front line without actually sacking him. One of the Labor headkickers (I forget which, maybe Holding or Dawkins) made a regualar habit of asking Killen at QT what exactly he had done this week. His answer was always "I administered my department." What were the functions of the Department of the VPEC? I don't know - I doubt it had any. Adam 10:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Invitation for you

Hi, JackofOz!
You've indicated through various means (a userbox, membership in a category, etc) that you are part of the Wikipedia LGBT community, or are interested in Wikipedia's LGBT related pages. Welcome!

You may not know that Wikipedia has both an LGBT Notice Board and an LGBT Studies WikiProject. If you haven't yet done so, take a look at both of them. They sorely need attention and participation!

Some things on the "To-Do List" that merit particular attention include:

  1. Identifying topics/pages that need attention
  2. Identifying problems that need addressing
  1. Adding the LGBT template to appropriate pages
  2. Categorizing LGBT pages

Please feel free to participate in any or all of these activities! And if you feel like it, add yourself to either the Noticeboard Members or the WikiProject Participants - or both!

Glad you're a part of Wikipedia - and Thanks! This invitation posted here by SatyrTN -- talk
Please remove it if you so desire.

Hope to see you at our developing Project! Jeffpw 09:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Noahs Ark

Sorry didn't mean to jump on you. --Michael Johnson 16:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

True Cross

G'Day! Jack!

Just writing to you about the legendary business. I want to point out that any and all of the information concerning the True Cross could be called into question. The title the "True Cross" itself is subject to the legend because, presuming that Helena, Mother of Constantine, did find buried timber, it is only on the interpretation of a certain event as miraculous, that the so-called "True Cross" exists, as against some very finite piece of timber upon which some Nazarean rabble-rouser was once executed and which may or may not have become firewood but which (fairly) definitely once existed. (if one excepts certain records as Gospel, if you take my meaning.)

The point I am making is that the article is about a "legendary" object, the continued existence of which is a matter of faith, which may or may not have real form in some preserved splinters. Under those circumstances, the legend of the seed springing from Adam is just as valid in the telling as any later part of the history. We don't delete parts of the story just because they stretch our belief, if at some time previous they were historically a part of the belief system.

The same cannot be said for people who are just plain muddled! I recently wrote the Adam legend into the article and supported it with the two Piero della Francesco pics. There is also a pic of the burial of Adam, which is part of the series. (This was very much a living tradition in the 15th century when Piero was painting.) I wrote it because there was some entirely spurious stuff that needed replacing.

The part of the article which was spurious was that the initial poster had mistaken the "True Cross" for the "Jesse Tree" which is an entirely different thing. Of course the initial poster had no references whatsoever to back up the info, and only wrote a few lines of what they obviously thought was an old legend, but which in fact wasn't. There was no doubt in the mind of medieval writers and painters as to what constituted the "True Cross" tradition, and what the metaphorical "Jesse Tree" was. They were two entirely different things. But with that spurious description the article began.

Please don't delete from any article legends that are stated clearly to be legends. The verbal or written legend that surrounds any object is part of its living history. At this site all knowledge is valuable. But it must be sourced and referenced appropriately. If a writer makes a bald statement like "The cross of Christ came from a tree that grew from the mouth of the body of Adam"- then you don't delete it. You add the words "There is a tradition that...." and ask the person where they read that information. As an art historian, legends are my business.

G'donya, Mate!

--Amandajm 07:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


Please explain to me why the 1884 in the opening section of Fred Whitlam should be linked, while the 1900 in the second paragraph should not be. Adam 05:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I refrained from responding to this as it was based on a demonstrably false premise. In case you missed it, the false premise is that I, personally, am somehow responsible for getting all the articles in Wikipedia correct, and if I somehow fail to do this, it's because I believe they are correct in their incorrectness. Let me make it crystal clear: Nowhere did I ever say that the 1900 should not be linked. I just failed to link it - because either I overlooked it, or I haven't yet got around to perfecting every article on my watchlist (which currently stands at over 3,000 articles). At worst, I am guilty of a sin of omission, but we work as a team here at Wikipedia and someone will surely come along sooner or later and fix my shocking, egregious error. That's one thing. However, looking at Bill Hayden, I see you have recently de-linked his date of birth and a host of other dates in the article. They were linked, but now, thanks to you, they're not. If anyone has any explaining to do around here, I think it might be your good self. What are links for if they get removed from the very places they were designed for? We may as well do away with links altogether - and there goes Wikipedia. JackofOz 09:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Such hypersensitivity! I wasn't accusing you of anything, I was asking you if you could explain Wikipedia policy to me. When I started editing three years ago, Wikipedia policy was that all dates should be linked. Last year sometime it suddenly became policy that years should not be linked, but that day-and-month dates should still be linked. So I have been busily delinking years in all the articles I wrote under the old policy. But it still seems to be the case that years in birth and death dates must be linked. My question was: can you tell me why this is so? Adam 09:35, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Hi Adam. Sorry if I overreacted. In my defence, I was convinced I saw the spectre of Pauline Hanson in your question ("Please explain"), so I'm sure you understand my extreme paranoia and horror and temporary insanity.
  • For dates of birth and death, I've always gone by Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates of birth and death. For year-only dates, I go by Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates for the first mention, but rarely for later mentions, unless they're separated by a large distance. In my 3 years here I'm unaware of these guidelines having changed - but then, I hardly ever check them, because I hardly ever come across anyone who delinks dates that don't classify as overlinking. In general, most editors seem to be happy to create more links rather than less. Within a certain tolerance, I think that too many links is preferable to not enough. The exact right number is the ideal I'm sure we all strive for in our own ways. :) JackofOz 10:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Anagrams and anecdotes

Jack: I saw your musing on the anagram talk page, wondering whether 'ars magna' was an urban myth. Probably so. I feel sure you'll enjoy this book review in which the basis for my comment on "Roman anagrams" appears. — OtherDave 14:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

ref desk mess

I don't think the ref desk talk page is the place to discuss the actual fight. I didn't mean to offend you by removing your post, only to stop the argument from spreading over multiple pages. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 06:44, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Verdi String Quartet

I will preface this comment with the fact that I am new to Wikipedia. However, I am confused as to the purpose of removing a reference to a groundbreaking and definitive recording by the Julliard String Quartet. The Quartet in E minor was not performed by any established ensemble untill the 1992 recording. The Julliard String Quartet brought the Verdi back from obscurity and into standard concert repertoire. Furthermore, I do not understand how this statement is in any way "self-serving." I only wish to enhance the article by referencing a recording that is considered to be an authority on this rare Verdi work. Kugelmass 05:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Kugelmass. I'm not new to Wikipedia, but being human I sometimes act inappropriately. I had no need to talk about this being self-serving, and I apologise for that. The article was about the quartet, not about recordings of it, although I agree that information about the recordings is useful and can be included, but not in the lead paragraph, somewhere lower down. However, I disagree with the statement about the Juilliard bringing it back from obscurity. The first recording I owned was of the string orchestral version, which I bought in 1973 or 1974. It was played by, from memory, I Solisti Veneti. I heard numerous other performances of the original string quartet version many times on radio over the years, well before 1992. JackofOz 02:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I had a discussion with my cello teacher concerning the Verdi Quartet some time ago. It would seem that I took his words of praise for the JSQ recording to heart without doing the homework myself. Thank you for the correction.
I took a brief look at your user page. I might have a lead on your Godowsky recording. Besides the quite innaccessible copy at the Oxford music archives, I have good reason to believe there's one at Northwestern here in Chicago. A good friend of mine works there as an assistant librarian... I'll tell you if anything turns up. It was nice to have met you, JackofOz. Please let me know if I can be of any help, whether it be editing, research, or otherwise.Kugelmass 07:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Godowsky/ Moszkowski Lead

Nothing turned up at Northwestern...

It's quite likely that you know this already, but here it is anyway:

I did find a copy of Godowsky's performance in piano roll form available through in a downloadable catalogue. The website also mentions, however, that the rpfl has many recordings of original performances. Contacting the rpfl may prove quite useful in tracking down this recording. If that fails, an LP is mentioned on a Godowsky message board [4]: a gentleman by the name of Andrew Cockburn seems to own a recording. Perhaps he may be nice enough to send a copy 'down under'... And if for any reason you had an inclination to see this piano roll, you could obtain photocopies through the rpfl.

One more thing (completely unrelated) I found this floating around the public domain... do you know what it is? File:GrandTrio.pdf Kugelmass 01:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

"The Late""

I appreciate you giving a solid argument on the Nancy Reagan page about referring to the dead as "the late". A vast majority of articles at this point don't have it, so it isn't good form. I reverted the article again as someone changed it from your edit. I am attempting discussion here: Wikipedia talk:Words to avoid, and if you could pipe in, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Booshakla 02:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Diana Agabeg Apcar

Saw your comments in Talk:Alexandra Kollontai. Why don't you make an article on her; but please give your references. Thanks. Dogru144 17:16, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

"absinthe has made your heart grow fonder"

*Ouch*!!! :-) —Steve Summit (talk) 16:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Odd Behaviour

Hey Jack,

I fully recognize that of late, my behaviour has been, to say the least, quite odd. I won't bother going on about just why this has happened, as I'm not even sure of the answer myself.

I've also noticed that our relationship has deteriorated to basically nothing. To me that's terribly unfortunate because I still regard you as a great friend and a kindred spirit, and I truly valued every bit of guidance you sent my way, as I always will.

At least once you described yourself as a "rebel". Well, I suppose that what you're seeing of late is the "rebel" in me. I've gotten tired of some of the bullshit regarding certain issues, and as a result I've gotten my due share of criticism.

I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, except to express my sorrow at the possible misfortune of losing my first and only wikimentor: Jack.

Lewis Loomis 05:26, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Jon Stanhope

Hello JackofOz. I notice the article John Stanhope was recently renamed Councilor Jon Stanhope by User:Qwert12 and soonafter moved by you to Jon Stanhope (ACT Chief Minister). I agree that the new name is preferable to the previous one but I can see no good reason to change it from its original. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) the standard format is <First name> <Last name> and a bracketed qualifier is only necessary when the standard format is difficult to follow, for instance to disambiguate two people with the same name. I can see no articles about other Jon Stanhopes and I've written to User:Qwert12 to ask whether he/she had a particular reason for moving the article. There are at least 50 other articles linking to the original name. Do you have any objection to restoring it? Gimboid13 09:16, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Changing between US and UK spelling

Hello Jack. It's not really appropriate to switch between English and American spelling without a compelling reason such as you did here. I am not entirely sure where this golden rule is recorded, so I struggle to point you to it, but it's generally considered rude. Thanks. - NYC JD (make a motion) 06:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I bothered you unnecessarily. You were correct. - NYC JD (make a motion) 12:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
No worries. Thanks. :) JackofOz 12:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
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