User talk:HelpTheBear/2017/August

University of Kansas

According to http://www.tausigmadelta.org/chapters/page/6/ both University of Kansas and University of Nebraska @ Lincoln are Psi chapter. According to everything else, University of Kansas is Pi, not Psi.

Use a source that states it as Pi chapter. I looked on KU's website and couldn't find a webpage for it despite it being listed on the site. It might be inactive. Don't help me, help the bear. 00:31, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

That makes sense. Maybe we can push getting TSD itself to fix its web page.Naraht (talk) 15:51, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Typing the email now. Hopefully we can see some results :) Don't help me, help the bear. 16:44, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Help?

I think I've made a grave error in editing Tau Sigma Delta, I was only trying to help improve the article and now it's bombarded with tags. Could I get banned for not disclosing my COI as a member of the honor society before editing it? Don't help me, help the bear. 13:10, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

If you had made contentious or blatantly promotional edits several times, even after being warned, then you could have been blocked. But your edits were only factual, and you have now declared your conflict of interest on your user page, so everything is alright. Of course, in the future you should avoid editing pages you have a conflict of interest with and instead place an edit request on the talk page of the article instead. As for the tags placed on the article, it wasn't because of your edits, but perhaps the edits you made some recent changes patrollers (people who review recent changes to revert vandalism) notice the article and place the tags. These tags are true and valid, but they were equally true and valid before you made your edits and your edits had nothing to do with the issues listed in the tags. Thanks, Darylgolden^(talk) Ping when replying 13:27, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Tau Sigma Delta has about a page directly about it in the most recent version of Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities, and using information from there (which BTW, says May 1913, the may vs June 5th is a completely different issue) should be enough when added to take care of all of the tags. I'll do that when I can. *However*, there is a *long* way between having those tags (which are basically a reminder/warning) to actually proposing to delete the article. (And IMO, over 100 years of age and existing on more than 100 chapters definitely is significant enough). We'll get it to a much better state (and the infobox was a great start!)Naraht (talk) 13:36, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Naraht I completely agree. It may not be as big as Phi Beta Kappa, but Tau is without a doubt a notable organization filled with talented individuals. I think the issue with notability is that it is very notable in field, but people as a collective occasionally gloss over the little things in architecture, excluding AIA of course. Don't help me, help the bear. 13:42, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Yup. None of the tags by themselves represent enough of a reason to drop it, the article just got more attention. :) Besides, if you look at the history, you can see who created it in the first place.Naraht (talk) 13:57, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Twas you! Thanks! Don't help me, help the bear. 14:00, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it is notable in the field. Ideal then in terms of notability would be something like an article about TSD in an AIA magazine.Naraht (talk) 17:07, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Looks like it's time for me to get to work :) Don't help me, help the bear. 19:19, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

To work *finding* one or to work *writing* one? :)Naraht (talk) 20:54, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Definitely finding, I don't want to possibly cause an WP:NOR issue with this article :(. Don't help me, help the bear. 20:57, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that if the Architect Magazine publishes an article about Tau Sigma Beta, then even if you wrote it, you could use it in an article without worrying about WP:NOR, Besides Architect Magazine is going to require that you have sources. Maybe a Non-Neutral Point of View issue, but you should be OK with WP:NOR. :)Naraht (talk) 15:17, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

That's fact. You've really been nice and showing me the ropes. Thanks! Don't help me, help the bear. 07:03, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

NP. Now we just need more information. I need to take a look at the more recent Baird's. Also, is there any place where the list of chapters is nicely in one place? The active chapters are spread over 5 pages on the TSD website.Naraht (talk) 19:22, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

So sorry I haven't been of help the past couple of days, life called. The list of purely active chapters exists [http://www.tausigmadelta.org/chapters/ here. I think I'll be able to access more in depth information when the year starts up. Don't help me, help the bear. 07:23, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, outdent is cool, but you only have to do it after lots of indents. :) The lists of chapters that I've seen have been from one of four places:

1. The 1920 Baird's which are already added
2. The 1991 Baird's which actually has a copy of the chapter list from previous version in 1976 (This happened with a lot of GLOs, the 1991 Baird's was in some ways a half-assed effort.)
3. The TSD archives at http://media.clemson.edu/library/special_collections/findingaids/manuscripts/Mss0345TauSigmaDelta.html
4. The Fraternity website which has the active list spread over 5 pages.

Eventually we'll end up with a more complete list. Feel free to add from the archives or the fraternity website when you get a chance, Eventually, I think it will be transformed to a table, but right now let's just go for information, "pretty" is less important. And if it gets big enough that it should be on its own page, we'll cut it out and move it there. The pages that are chapter lists are at Category:Lists_of_chapters_of_United_States_student_societies_by_societyNaraht (talk) 13:33, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Went ahead and added from the 1977 version (that I was able to get the previews to show me what I wanted) and the archives. I'll hold off on the fraternity website for a bit (so that you can do that. :) )Naraht (talk) 17:47, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Can I edit the page with a COI? I've resigned myself to not touching it at this point. Don't help me, help the bear. 00:36, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

By the letter of the rules, no. You are supposed to use Template:Request edit with specifically what you want changed and what you want it changed to and let non-COI editors respond. *However*, as a non-COI editor currently working on the page, I'll be happy to respond to anything you put on the talk page for the article regardless how formated. Yes, you got mildly burned on creating the infobox, but no one had much interest to taking it to any of the notice boards. And if the article had a list of where TSD has had their National Conventions was in the article, but no one had located where the 1995 convention was and so there was an empty spot in the table, and you found out where it was and had a reference to the TSD magazine from Spring of 1995, then you should be fine (and appreciated). See WP:PLAINANDSIMPLECOI, yes, I tend to work a little bit more laxly than the policy. OTOH, if you want to make a major reorganization or put together a good history, then do a version of the article in a sandbox, work on it there and get it stable and bring that up on the talk page.

And if someone complains, feel free to go "Naraht told me so", it isn't like I can make this advice disappear. (And my edit] was in the article about my fraternity and I've made a "few" since) :)Naraht (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Chapter listing at the TSD site.

I copied the information from the 7 chapter pages and then sorted them. See Talk:Tau_Sigma_Delta#sorted_list with the non-sorted above them. I have two questions. First, why did choice of the chapter chapter names get so odd in the 2000s? Secondly, any ideas where to find the years for the chapters that don't have them in this list?Naraht (talk) 12:37, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Might be something administrative? I'd suggest emailing them to try to figure out what exactly is going on. Don't help me, help the bear. 00:33, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I tried asking a question on the website and I think it put me on a mailing list, but Tom Fowler wrote me welcoming me to the mailing list, and I wrote a *large* question on the topic back.Naraht (talk) 18:01, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately contacting nationals is a pain. I don't have those connections yet to be able to get to them since no one has given them to me yet. Isn't that just perfect? Don't help me, help the bear. 22:04, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Connecting Categories to Userboxes?

I have this userbox, and I'm struggling to get the userbox to ass a category to the userpage in which it's place. anyone have any idea on how to do it? I'm stumped. Thanks! Don't help me, help the bear. 05:56, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

You need to use {{includeonly}} instead of {{noinclude}} to transclude categories. Anyway, it's better to create userbox with {{userbox}} template, I've done it for you if you want to take a look. Alex Shih^Talk 06:42, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I see Alex Shih was working away at this while I was slowly typing...

Your userbox contains <noinclude> tags that prevent the category part from being part of the transclusion when you call on the userbox. Remove those tags. You should be able to see on the page User:HelpTheBear/Userboxes/TSD that that page is added to the category, despite the noinclude tags, but it looks like the category is non-existent at present.

I'm not an expert on this, but you may need to do something more elaborate to prevent categorization in places where it would not be appropriate. For example, if you look at Template:Userbox gay male and click on the edit tab, you'll see that there's a delicate dance of curly braces and Lua directives to make the right magic happen. I can't claim that I understand much of it in any detail.

Also, try not to spend too time making your userpage fancy. It's the editing in article space that you should focus on. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 06:54, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

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