Eranrabl

Book in Hebrew

Hi, I was wondering if you (or someone you knew) had this book:

• Shohat, Elisha (2006). 100 שנות כדורגל: 1906–2006 [100 Years of Football: 1906–2006] (in Hebrew). Hod Hasharon.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)

I've been told that you (or someone you know) could have it. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 01:09, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499: I do have the book. I read the thread over at SuperJew and tried to look around. The book have a photocopy of the original line-ups, but that doesn't have the Lebanese players' full name. This and this (taken from the IFA archive) are two halves of the programme page that show the line-ups, again without full names. Also, there is a match report The Palestine Post. Reports in the Hebrew press don't help either.--Eranrabl (talk) 05:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks for your help. Btw, is there any other sort of info in the book? Like photos or anything else that isn't present in 1940 Mandatory Palestine v Lebanon football match? Also, does the match program from the IFA archive have the time the match was played? Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 13:55, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499: The segment in Shohat's book doesn't add much. Mostly it quotes from the newspaper "Ha'Aretz". As for the hour of the match, Ha'Aretz writes (translated from Hebrew, of course): "The match for which football fans waited will be held on Saturday, 27 April this year at 4 PM at the Maccabiah Stadium in Tel Aviv)". I also added a paragraph to the background section in the article, which was too long to write here.--Eranrabl (talk) 10:12, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Also also, as you might be well versed in Arabic (as I am not), you might find reports in the Arab press of Mandatory Palestine in The National Library Archives.--Eranrabl (talk) 10:16, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks for your help. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 13:39, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Hey, in case you were interested I've started a peer review for 1940 Mandatory Palestine v Lebanon football match, with the idea of promoting it to FA in the future. If you could give a couple of comments I would greatly appreciate it! Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 20:03, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Transliteration from Arabic, to Hebrew, to English

Hi, I have a transliteration issue going on. In the IFA article about the 1940 match, the Lebanon line-up is listed as follows: הרכב לבנון היה: נאזם, יאגוצ'י, סאקרה, גאורגיוס, בארביר, פלאח, ג'ארושי, נרקוסי, קמיל, אוקאן, ג'ארה. These names have been transliterated by The Palestine Post into: (Nazem) Sayad, Jeugiche, Sacre, Giragos, Barbir, Fallah, Yaroudi, Nerces, Kamil, Oxen, Jarad. Today, an article came out in Arabic about the Beirut XI national select team in 1946, and some names caught my attention. I want to run through some names I've found, and ask you if they could match with the names from the IFA. (Hebrew version in the left, Arabic in the right):

• Nazem Sayad = Nazem Sayadi
• Jeugiche = Yeguiche (Darian)
• Sacre = (Antoine) Saker
• Giragos = Georges (Chedrafian)
• Barbir = unknown
• Fallah = (Salah) Falah
• Yaroudi = (Muhieddine) Jaroudi
• Nerces = unknown
• Kamil = Camille (Cordahi)
• Oxen = Ohannes (Altawian)
• Jarad = (Dekrian) Gerganian

What do you think? Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 20:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499: Hi again. The transliteration is plausible (to some more than others) but six years is a long time, especially in wartime, and there is a possibility that Saker (for instance) is not the same Saker that played in Tel Aviv. The 1940 Lebanon XI listed in the Palestine Post also have their clubs mentioned. Is there a way to check with the clubs, or the Lebanese FA about registration of the players?

Also, if possible, can you link the 1946 article?--Eranrabl (talk) 04:58, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Also also, Beirut Homenetmen's 1942 Palestine Tour (including Beirut players surnames); --Eranrabl (talk) 05:40, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

This is the article about the 1946 Beirut XI (note: I contacted the author and he told me that 1964 is a typo which, for God knows what reason, he can't fix). The article also lists the clubs, which mostly match.

Thanks for the 1942 Palesine Post article, very insightful. I've found that Oksen Ourfalian, who played for Homenetmen Jerusalem in 1942, moved there in 1942 from Homenetmen Beirut. So that's one name taken care of. Also, Giragos moved from Homenetmen Beirut to Homenetmen Jerusalem in 1942 (as Oksen), but I can't find his full name. I'll dig more into the archive to see if I can find anything. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:54, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Quick confirmation

Hi, in the Featured Article candidacy, I was asked "'they failed to score against goalkeeper Benjamin Mizrahi', is this just a generalisation or did Mizrahi make saves?". This is referred to Lebanon, after the Palestine goal in the 11th minute. As the source used is the Sohat book, I came here to ask. Thanks, Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 13:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499: Hello again. I have re-read the Hebrew reports of the match. There's a report by "HaMashkif" which says: "The Lebanese start [the second half] with an offence and manage to score to the Palestine goal in the 6th minute. They try to attack once and twice more. but soon enough the initiative pass the the Palestine feet. The Lebanese manage to get near the Palestine goal only in rare occasions. Only once the ball reached the Palestine goalkeeper, in the 9th minute and not anymore. In the first half the Palestine goalkeeper stopped the Lebanese balls in the 4th, 9th, 18th, 23rd, 28th, 32nd, 38th and 41th (The Lebanese goalkeeper had much work). "HaAretz" also mentions one save after the goal ("after few moments the visitors' right winger passes the ball to the middle, the center kick, but Mizrahi gets low and catches the ball"). That seems to be it, only one save and a match dominated by the Palestine team (which was playing with the wind in the second half) after it.--Eranrabl (talk) 14:10, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Can you please link the HaMashkif and HaAretz reports? Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 14:20, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, when you get the time can you please send the sources? I have nominated the article for Featured Article, so I would prefer to add the info you just told me about. Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 23:29, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499: Apologies, I got busy with my own project and was distracted. This is HaMashkif article (Title:"Eretz Israel Beat The Lebanon", HaMashkif, 28 April 1940, p. 6) and This is the Ha'Aretz (Title:"Eretz Israel Beat The Lebanon in Football 5:1 (4:0), Ha'Aretz, 30 April 1940, p. 5).--Eranrabl (talk) 08:19, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

A few clarifications. Can you write the exact text regarding the "wind in the second half"? Also, can you write the Hebrew title of the Ha'Aretz article? And "In the first half the Palestine goalkeeper stopped the Lebanese balls in the 4th, 9th, 18th, 23rd, 28th, 32nd, 38th and 41th". Stopped means that Lebanon made 8 shots on target, and the goalkeeper saved them? Or he stopped them in the sense that some of them were crosses, or passes, and he just collected the ball? Also, it doesn't describe how many saves the Lebanon GK made? Thanks, Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 14:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nehme1499:
(1) Ha'Aretz title: "ארץ-ישראל ניצחה את הלבנון בכדורגל 1:5 (0:4)";
(2) The wind is mentioned in this article (Title: An International Meeting in the Stadium (פגישה בינלאומית באצטדיון), HaBoker, 28 April 1940, p. 7): "In the first half the Hebrew team played against the wind but despite that managed to score 4 goals. In the second half the Hebrew team played with the wind, but scored only one goal. The reason for that was that in the second half the Eretz Israel team saw that it is facing a weak opponent and lowered its tempo";
(3) The shot count is from the "HaMashkif" article linked above. I understand from the article that the eight stops were shots on goal, just as the 54th minute shot was stopped by Mizrahi. The article also states that the two stops made on the 18th and 23rd minutes were "Hard shots" and that the crowd cheered those stops;
(4)The only remarks about the Lebanese goalkeeper are: "The goalkeeper saved a few times" (Ha'Aretz), "The Goalkeeper of the Lebanese had a lot of work" (HaMashkif), "The Lebanese goalkeeper doesn't bear any responsibility for the five goals and he's not to blame for them." (a different article from HaBoker)--Eranrabl (talk) 15:36, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks. In the meantime, I have created the pages for the 13 Mandatory Palestine players in 1940. They are all mostly stubs; if you get the time, you can fill in some information using some Hebrew sources (if you want). Nehme₁₄₉₉ (talk) 16:50, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

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Palestine v Lebanon ticket

Hi, could you please add information on where you found this image? What date what this image taken from? Who's the author? Nehme₁₄₉₉ 14:16, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

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