Codesmith

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August 2022

Hello, I'm Schierbecker. I noticed that you recently removed content from LAV II without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Schierbecker (talk) 00:37, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

It may very well be the case that the LAV family is not part of the MOWAG family. However, most reliable sources say that it is. If you want to make a change, it is important to get some rock-solid sources to back them up. Schierbecker (talk) 00:41, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Please provide a link to sources on this. The 'U.S.-Canadian Defense Industrial Cooperation - Case Studies' does not provide a connection with any version that the AVGP to MOWAG, and I cannot find the text of 'Modern Tanks and AFVs 1991-Present' to determine accuracy. While I worked at GM Armoured Vehicle in the past, my POV would constitute original research.

I will refer to the following: https://tanknutdave.com/the-usmc-lav-25/

The Swiss firm MOWAG developed a series of 4×4, 6×6 and 8×8 wheeled troop carriers for the Swiss Army commonly known as the Piranha during the 1970’s. Their order books have expanded to include international purchases from many other nations Armies and includes the licenced production during the 1970’s of their 6×6 vehicle by GM Defense for the Canadian Army, who designated it the Armoured Vehicle General Purpose AKA “AVGP”.

~

GDLS-Canada’s 8×8 vehicles are called Light Armoured Vehicles, Better known as LAV. LAV is not a non-European designation of Piranha.

Since the production of the AVGP, GDLS-Canada have gone on to develop the LAV II & LAV III, which despite some similarity’s to the Swiss Piranha’s are GDLS’s own designs based on the AVGP and are not copies of Swiss Piranha’s.

Bolding by me.

Frank Maas's paper 'The Success of the Light Armoured Vehicle' completely skips the development of the LAV-25 and the follow-on Bison and Coyote variants. It also confuses the design dates and misses the purchase of MOWAG in 2004 by General Dynamics Land Systems. I have reached out to Mr. Maas for clarification, but he has not responded.

At this point, I'm just removing the references to 'Pirhana' in the LAV-II and LAV-III articles as there is no direct connection between the two. Codesmith (talk) 20:28, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Jane's Armour and Artillery (p. 508) says that the LAV-25 is based on the Mowag Piranha. It does not say which model thereof. I concede that Modern Tanks and AFVs 1991-Present is unreliable as I've since realized that most of the book is wholesale unattributed paraphrasing of Tankencyclopedia.com. Can't use Tank Nut Dave as a source as it is WP:SPS. Will look into this more later. Schierbecker (talk) 22:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)