AAPS Attorney
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Happy editing! Cheers, Doug Weller talk 07:55, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
February 2024 edit
Your recent edits to Talk:Association of American Physicians and Surgeons could give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself. Please note that making such threats on Wikipedia is strictly prohibited under Wikipedia's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a dispute with the content of any page on Wikipedia, please follow the proper channels for dispute resolution. Please be sure to comment on content, not contributors, and where possible make specific suggestions for changes supported by reliable independent sources and focusing especially on verifiable errors of fact. Thank you. —C.Fred (talk) 04:15, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- That's fine, and I don't have a problem with the policy you cite. Thank you. I didn't violate that policy and don't intend to. But my polite comment on the talk page was entirely deleted. Are you posting any warnings to the person who deleted my polite attempt to resolve an issue on a talk page? That improper deletion on a talk page prevents those who have the entry page on their watch list from correcting their improper posting there.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 04:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Editors with the page on their watch list would have seen the washout. Since your message has been readded, they'll see the net addition of characters. As for a warning to the other editor, I do not think one is in order. When a new account shows up with a username that indicates a strong conflict of interest and is essentially a paid editing declaration, it is not unreasonable to remove the comment—especially when the article in question is in three separate areas of the contentious topics procedure and the comment reads as a soft legal threat. —C.Fred (talk) 04:34, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- You haven't quoted the policies because they are against what you're arguing here. Moreover, people are not likely to bother to dig into the history of a talk page to ferret out a deleted comment. And threatening to escalate a matter at Wikipedia is not an improper legal threat - Wikipedia rules specifically say that. As to defamation, which the first sentence in the entry about AAPS is, the Wikipedia policy is this:
- Editors with the page on their watch list would have seen the washout. Since your message has been readded, they'll see the net addition of characters. As for a warning to the other editor, I do not think one is in order. When a new account shows up with a username that indicates a strong conflict of interest and is essentially a paid editing declaration, it is not unreasonable to remove the comment—especially when the article in question is in three separate areas of the contentious topics procedure and the comment reads as a soft legal threat. —C.Fred (talk) 04:34, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
| “ | A discussion as to whether material is libelous is not a legal threat. Wikipedia's policy on defamation is to delete libelous material as soon as it is identified. If you believe that you are the subject of a libelous statement, email the information team at info-en-q@wikipedia.org. | ” |
- Presumably you're a Wikipedia Admin (Sysop). You're bound by Wikipedia rules, and the unsourced, unverified, contrary-to-Wikipedia-policies first sentence in the AAPS entry should be removed soon, before this escalates at Wikipedia pursuant to its rules. Thanks.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- I took a quick look, and the only thing I found that I don't see sourced in the body of the article is "non-profit". There's an EIN listed in the infobox and a claim that the organization is a 501(c)6, but that alone isn't reliable sourcing. The rest of the first sentence, I see sections in the body of the article with sources to support. —C.Fred (talk) 04:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- "promotes conspiracy theories and medical misinformation [unverified examples listed]" is an unverified, defamatory smear. Pursuant to the Wikipedia policy I quote above, it's going to be removed. If you're an Admin (I haven't checked yet), you should do that without burdening others at Wikipedia as the appeal process provides.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 05:00, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- It very much is cited, at least in the body of the article. Usually, the lead of the article won't repeat the citations already in the rest of the article. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 05:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- It's false and not verified. The medical journal is not AAPS, and that's expressly stated in every issue. What you're doing is like saying Elon Musk "promotes" something offensive that someone says on X. That would be defamatory to Elon Musk.
- I can simply email the Wikipedia address above and I'm confident they will delete the defamation. But this is a good faith attempt to obtain fair treatment without having to burden the higher-ups.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 05:09, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- I would merely like to point out that the email address you refer to is actually answered by volunteer editors as well, rather than any "higher-ups". Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) If you reply here, please ping me by using {{re|Ks0stm}} in your reply. 05:13, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- From the article: "Writing in The Guardian, science columnist Ben Goldacre described the journal as the 'in-house magazine of a rightwing US pressure group well known for polemics on homosexuality, abortion and vaccines.'[1]" If not enough to outright support the claim, it is enough to show that Wikipedia is not making the statement in its own voice, which alleviates the defamation concern. —C.Fred (talk) 05:13, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- The Wikipedia statement at the beginning of the entry is far worse than the Guardian statement. If you're not going to remove the defamation, then I'll escalate this further pursuant to Wikipedia procedures. I've given notice in good faith, and so far there has been a refusal by a longtime Wikipedia Admin to correct the defamation.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 05:26, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- It very much is cited, at least in the body of the article. Usually, the lead of the article won't repeat the citations already in the rest of the article. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 05:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- "promotes conspiracy theories and medical misinformation [unverified examples listed]" is an unverified, defamatory smear. Pursuant to the Wikipedia policy I quote above, it's going to be removed. If you're an Admin (I haven't checked yet), you should do that without burdening others at Wikipedia as the appeal process provides.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 05:00, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- I took a quick look, and the only thing I found that I don't see sourced in the body of the article is "non-profit". There's an EIN listed in the infobox and a claim that the organization is a 501(c)6, but that alone isn't reliable sourcing. The rest of the first sentence, I see sections in the body of the article with sources to support. —C.Fred (talk) 04:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Presumably you're a Wikipedia Admin (Sysop). You're bound by Wikipedia rules, and the unsourced, unverified, contrary-to-Wikipedia-policies first sentence in the AAPS entry should be removed soon, before this escalates at Wikipedia pursuant to its rules. Thanks.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed that your username, "AAPS Attorney", may not meet Wikipedia's username policy because it implies shared use (please see WP:NOSHARING and WP:ROLE). If you believe that your username does not violate our policy, please leave a note here explaining why. As an alternative, you may ask for a change of username by completing the form at Special:GlobalRenameRequest, or you may simply create a new account for editing. Thank you. Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) If you reply here, please ping me by using {{re|Ks0stm}} in your reply. 04:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- My account is not a shared account, and the name no more implies that than many other names accepted on Wikipedia.--AAPS Attorney (talk) 05:00, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- @AAPS Attorney To clarify, are you an attorney for the AAPS? For the sake of transparency, I am the third Administrator posting to you. Doug Weller talk 07:54, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Goldacre, Ben (November 1, 2005). "The MMR sceptic who just doesn't understand science". The Guardian.
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