Template:Did you know nominations/Ruth-Margret Pütz

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:19, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Ruth-Margret Pütz edit

(

)

~~... that the art of Ruth-Margret Pütz, a leading coloratura soprano of the 1960s, was published in a 2018 Recital, including excerpts as Konstanze and Zerbinetta?~~ Source: [1], and others in German

Reviewed: Marni Abbott-Peter
Comment: ... a well-received Recital, but lovely comments seem a bit too long to be mentioned in the hook

Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 12:22, 7 April 2019 (UTC).

Saying "art" suggests physical art, where you could have used the word "songs" or "performances". Removing all the jargon leaves you with "A singer released a CD 50 years after her main success", which is quite plain. Apart from that, article new and good, well cited, no copyvio apparent, hook is cited but full of jargon, and not broadly interesting — and badly phrased throughout even if it could be used; needs a new hook. Kingsif (talk) 19:49, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, English is not my first language. What do say for the remarkable performance of a remarkable singer? "artistry"? Help needed. The singer did nothing. It was done to honour her, and happened just in time for her to hear it before she died. All critics agree that her singing was surprisingly "modern". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:56, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

There's not really a word for that, not that heaping praise really appears in DYK unless that's the main aspect of the hook. You would have to make it clear in the article that someone else released Recital, because it wasn't clear when I read it. If you'd be happy to update the article, you could suggest a hook based on the fact she heard what was effectively a Greatest Hits collection someone did just before she died, that's interesting. Kingsif (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

You misunderstood. In German, Kunst = art is used for all the arts, including music, theatre ... - If in English, art is only for what youcan see, what is the word for music? Has nothing to do with heaping praise, just factually describing that it is artistic, opposed to scientific, technical, you name it. There is "performing arts", so somewhere the concept that theatre and music are art seems to be present. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:51, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Music is a form of art, but they are generally distinguished by form (e.g. music, painting, sculpture, with 'art' alone most commonly meaning paintings; especially where DYK calls for clarity). So you could say "... that the music of...", but it is still an odd sentence formation, so you probably wouldn't. Kingsif (talk) 14:03, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Gerda, compare The arts and art, which generally means the visual arts (& no, not just "paintings"!). Johnbod (talk) 13:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that the artistry of Ruth-Margret Pütz, a leading coloratura soprano of the 1960s, was shown in a 2018 CD Recital, including excerpts as Konstanze and Zerbinetta?

Jmar67 (talk) 15:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

ALT1 has potential, but I wonder if it could be reworded to flow better: right now it seems to busy and feels like jumping from one fact to another. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:16, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

This has been stuck for a while and I don't really see ALT1 working out: it seems a bit too technical to be hooky. How about something short and simple?

ALT2 ... that Ruth-Margret Pütz was considered one of the leading coloratura sopranos of the 1960s?

Easy to understand, introduces a new term, and (hopefully) gives justice to her long and critically-acclaimed career. I would have suggested a hook based on the reviews in the article, but the words seem too technical to make a catchy hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:17, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

You know what, that's good. Now with hook-y hook, article meets all as far as a second glance shows and QPQ done. Kingsif (talk) 03:31, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

You know what, that same thing could be said about Sylvia Geszty, Rita Streich, - many others. But go your way saying "one of" things which fail to be personal about the subject. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:33, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Most people in the world have never heard the term "coloratura soprano" or know any of these people. It's hook-y - you can propose other hooks if you want. Kingsif (talk) 20:16, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Readers of our Main page had a chance to learn the term 12 times. It's hooky for those who don't know, but may be boring to those who do, - and those are the ones probably more interest in her. This would be the chance to say something more specific than the Recent deaths listing, good for 15,000+ page views. I won't add another hook, enough of a time sink. I should not even have bothered. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Personal: I was informed of her death in a way that almost made me cry. "What is death? A transition to rest." A line from her signature role of Kostanze, - and I just heard it on radio. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 24 May 2019 (UTC)