- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 21:04, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
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Mori Calliope
- ... that critics have considered VTuber Mori Calliope's rap music unorthodox compared to her agency Hololive Production's use of Japanese idol themes? Source: "While there are some outliers—for instance, Mori Calliope’s obscenity-filled rap tracks—the original songs of most Hololive members utilize traditional idol concept tropes." & "While some would say that the song is ‘unorthodox’ of the stereotypical idol, Mori’s style of rapping comes in line with the rise of other large VTubers that are now leaning towards a more Western preference instead of the Japanese idol grassroots."
- ALT1: ... that VTuber Mori Calliope's rap music has been noted as unorthodox compared to her agency Hololive Production's use of Japanese idol themes? Source: Same as above
- ALT2:
... that VTuber and rapper Mori Calliope spent 90 minutes requesting copyright clearance for a Persona 3 livestream from the game's developer Atlus?Source: "Mori Calliope did a full ninety-minute livestream that was just her begging Atlus for permission to play Persona 3." - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sandra Johnson
Converted from a redirect by Miraclepine (talk). Self-nominated at 00:51, 31 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Mori Calliope; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
- Article is new and long enough. The term unorthodox doesn't appear in the article, but I guess it's close enough so I'll give 0 and Alt1 the okay. I would also link VTuber; it's a niche subculture that most readers probably don't know. Alt2 doesn't quite convey the fact that she did a livestream consisting entirely of her begging the company—it reads more like she spent 90 minutes at the office talking to Atlus's legal department or something. And maybe there's more context somewhere, but going strictly by what the source says, to me "begging for permission to play" doesn't necessarily mean "requesting copyright clearance". QPQ supplied.
As for the article, hmm. Approaching this as someone who has heard of Hololive and VTubing but nothing more, it was... rather confusing to follow. I know it's an inherent feature of the medium, but reading the article I have trouble trying to make sense of whether the descriptions are of the fictional character / invented persona or the real person behind them. The sources seem to take it for granted and blend them together, but Wikipedia articles need to provide context so that "the reader should always be able to differentiate between real world and fictional content", per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction. (The article is also a lot of successive dates, without quite enough context on how the their rapper/singer career was launched. Are singing VTubers something Hololive already has an established system for? I'll also note that I'm not quite convinced of the strength of the sourcing, as most of them are just brief coverage of her activities or direct repetitions of announcements.)
All in all, I'll put this
on hold pending better real-world / in-universe distinction. Please consider the other issues non-mandatory suggestions. --Paul_012 (talk) 16:36, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Paul 012: Regarding ALT2: I need to assure compliance with copyright policy and WP:LIMITED only goes so far.
- Oh, and given the secretive nature of VTubers' real-life identities, the best we have that could count for real world content is real-life activities associated with the fictional VTuber identity. Hence, in order to distinguish between fictional content and real-world content, the overview section is about the VTuber's fictional persona, and the career section is about the real-life activities associated with the VTuber; I organized the page that way in line with pages like Projekt Melody and Ironmouse. Almost everything in the career section is in the context of her real-world activities; as for the sole exception: while she speaks in-character for her Crunchyroll News interview, said interview treats her like a real-life person. I have fixed the overview section in compliance with MOS:IN-U, so I'd say there should be enough distinction between fictional and real-life. In the meantime, I've linked VTuber in the hooks. ミラP@Miraclepine 04:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks; those small changes make a big improvement. While it would be ideal if the Overview section included more background on how Hololive creates its VTubers (right now the section could just be titled "Character", as it doesn't provide much of an overview), I'm not going to hold it against the DYK nom. The interview quote is still a bit unclear whether it's an in-character or real-life answer, but I guess there's not much we can do as that's how it comes from the source. If you want to go with the Alt2 fact, I'd say something along the lines of "spent 90 minutes on a livestream asking game developer Atlus to let her play..." (I'm still uncomfortable with "copyright clearance", as the need for permission could also be due to a number of non-copyright related restrictions.) Otherwise, I'll approve with the Alts 0 and 1. --Paul_012 (talk) 06:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- @Paul 012: I found two RS for the Persona 3 incident and have put them in the article, fixed the issue, and proposed new hooks accordingly. The Polygon source connects it to Japanese copyright law (which is infamously strict), but I think the hooks can do without it.
- ALT2.5: ... that VTuber and rapper Mori Calliope spent at least 90 minutes asking video game developer Atlus to allow her to stream their game Persona 3? Source: “Atlus, please, I’m begging you, please, let me, please, let me play, Persona 3, and live stream it, please, ... That was the entirety of the livestream — Mori pleading repeatedly for over 90 minutes as thousands of fans cheered on.
- ALT3: ... that VTuber Mori Calliope finally streamed the game Persona 3 more than two years after a livestream spending at least 90 minutes asking its developer Atlus to allow it? Source: "In Dec. 2020, Calli hosted a stream with one sole reason—beg ATLUS until they gave her permission to play Persona 3 on her YouTube channel. For a total of 90 minutes, she could be heard repeating phrases like, “ ... Please let me livestream the game Persona 3.” ... Update Jan. 19, [2023] 6.10pm CT: Calli ... has since broadcasted her first session of Persona 3.
- Hope these help. ミラP@Miraclepine 17:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks; those small changes make a big improvement. While it would be ideal if the Overview section included more background on how Hololive creates its VTubers (right now the section could just be titled "Character", as it doesn't provide much of an overview), I'm not going to hold it against the DYK nom. The interview quote is still a bit unclear whether it's an in-character or real-life answer, but I guess there's not much we can do as that's how it comes from the source. If you want to go with the Alt2 fact, I'd say something along the lines of "spent 90 minutes on a livestream asking game developer Atlus to let her play..." (I'm still uncomfortable with "copyright clearance", as the need for permission could also be due to a number of non-copyright related restrictions.) Otherwise, I'll approve with the Alts 0 and 1. --Paul_012 (talk) 06:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
