Template:Did you know nominations/List of athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics with a prior doping offence

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by — Maile (talk) 21:44, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

List of athletes at the 2016 Summer Olympics with a prior doping offence edit

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~~... that 95 athletes, representing 51 countries in 13 sports, who are registered to compete at the 2016 Summer Olympics, have previously been convicted of a doping offence?~~

ALT1: ~~... that swimmer Yuliya Yefimova was the only Russian athlete with a prior doping offence allowed to compete at the 2016 Summer Olympics?~~
Comment: The first blurb is my preferred one but it is not covered by a single citation but by all the individually cited entries in the list (and simple maths). This is my first DKY nomination.

Created by KTC (talk) and Thryduulf (talk). Nominated by Thryduulf (talk) at 09:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC).

Comment; I would not use a specific number. The attached list is grossly incomplete. As I am going through Olympic competitors bios there are at least a dozen I have noticed that are not included in this list. I have far bigger fish to fry during the Olympics so I can't spend the time to update this list in each instance, particularly when BLP sourcing is required. But the number are definitely wrong by being too low. Trackinfo (talk) 18:37, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

No issues found with article, ready for human review.
- ✓ This article is new and was created on 14:10, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- ✓ This article meets the DYK criteria at 1600 characters
- ✓ All paragraphs in this article have at least one citation
- ✓ This article has no outstanding maintenance tags
- ✓ A copyright violation is unlikely according to automated metrics (16.0% confidence; confirm)
  - Note to reviewers: There is low confidence in this automated metric, please manually verify that there is no copyright infringement or close paraphrasing. Note that this number may be inflated due to cited quotes and titles which do not constitute a copyright violation.
No overall issues detected
- ✓ The hook ALT0 is an appropriate length at 164 characters
- ✓ The hook ALT1 is an appropriate length at 128 characters
- ✓ Thryduulf has fewer than 5 DYK credits. No QPQ required. Note a QPQ will be required after 5 more DYKs.

Automatically reviewed by DYKReviewBot. This is not a substitute for a human review. Please report any issues with the bot. --DYKReviewBot (report bugs) 22:28, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Obviously, if approved, this would be best run before the end of the Olympics. Thryduulf (talk) 09:04, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@KTC and Thryduulf: This nomination is not going to get anywhere until the comment above has received attention. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Cwmhiraeth: The article has been updated since the comment was made, but I took it mainly as a comment about the hook. I don't know how it can be addressed any more than that? Thryduulf (talk) 09:10, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Thryduulf: Well, I'm not sure how lists that might be incomplete are treated in this respect. I think we need a new hook that does not state 95 as a precise figure, and if you would like to suggest one, I will review the nomination. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:01, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Cwmhiraeth and Thryduulf: I've struck the original blurb suggestion with the precise figure as it stands. If people are happy, one can go back to it with "at least" but I'll leave that to others here. There was already a ALT1 (see above), obviously one can think about another alternative if it is not suitable. -- KTC (talk) 10:10, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I had not noticed ALT1. My apologies, I will review it now. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

How about

ALT2: ~~... that swimmer Yuliya Yefimova was allowed to compete at the 2016 Summer Olympics despite a blanket ban on Russian athletes with a prior doping offence?~~ Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:40, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
- I think there needs to be some note of context that Yefimova is Russian, without knowing that it seems very odd to single her out. Thryduulf (talk) 18:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

This hook seems to me to fall within the "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals" rule. Espresso Addict (talk) 00:16, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Well you might call the article negative, but I wouldn't say the ALT2 hook was. I will leave it to someone else to further review this nomination. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:18, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

ALT2 certainly isn't focused on a negative aspect of a living individual, and I don't think ALT1 is either. As for the article, I don't think it is as it includes only those athletes who competed at the olympics, which I think is a very positive thing. Thryduulf (talk) 18:07, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

New reviewer needed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:09, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but I would also have to say that both hooks focus unduly on negative aspects of a living person: namely, that she failed a drug test. Now the article itself does not focus on one person, and short of questioning its notability at AfD I don't think I can take issue with it: but surely we can come up with a hook that does not have to name an athlete? Vanamonde (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: The only hooks I can think of that don't mention specific people are about using specific numbers which was rejected earlier. Maybe KTC has other ideas? Thryduulf (talk) 11:23, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

That does seem to leave us in a bit of bind, doesn't it? The generic hook is out because the list is not complete: the specific is out because of the very nature of the article, in which each entry is, of necessity, focusing on a negative aspect of a living person. A solution that comes to mind is waffling a little, and going with something like "A number of athletes..." or "at least X athletes..." but I can see that other folks may not see that as a satisfactory solution. Alternatively, we could use a fact about the WADA rules (whether Russian athletes could compete would be decided on a case by case basis...) or finally, decide that the nature of this topic makes it unsuitable for DYK. Vanamonde (talk) 14:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Maybe focus on the number of countries rather than athletes, and use a round number? Something like "athletes from over 50 countries" might satisfy the issue, so long as no names are used. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:58, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I'd be happy with "athletes from over 50 countries...", "athletes competing in at least 13 sports..." and/or "athletes competing in more than 10 different sports..." for hooks, if that meets other people's requirements for hooks that don't focus unduly on negative aspects of a living person. This is my first DYK nomination so I'm unfamiliar with how it is interpreted in practice. Thryduulf (talk) 00:02, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Vanamonde, you objected to the earlier hooks. Would this be a satisfactory way forward for you? BlueMoonset (talk) 05:02, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@Thryduulf and BlueMoonset: Yes, I'd be fine with anything along those lines. Vanamonde (talk) 06:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

If someone would like to propose an ALT3 hook, I will be happy to review it. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:13, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that athletes from over 50 countries who had a prior doping offence were allowed to compete at the 2016 Summer Olympics? Yoninah (talk) 21:37, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

This article is long enough and was new enough at the time of nomination. The ALT3 hook is satisfactory, I counted up the nations in the table but did not check each individual athlete entry! The article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. Good to go. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:12, 30 October 2016 (UTC)