- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:16, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
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Hallo Ü-Wagen edit
Hallo Ü-Wagen in 1982
... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) was a weekly travelling talk radio show of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, with participation of experts, guests and listeners (pictured)?Source: [1]
- Reviewed: Megumi Nakajima
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 20:44, 7 May 2019 (UTC).
The article was nominated within the 7-day requirement, it is adequately sourced, free of plagiarism, and AGF sourced to German sources. QPQ still required. The hook is okay but I think a more interesting fact in the article is the one about the host being called one of Germany's 100 Most Influential Women. Would it be okay for you to propose a hook based on that? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)- In the above hook, "listeners" is somewhat confusing. The article refers to those on location as the "public" and those listening by radio as "listeners". Jmar67 (talk) 11:17, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- I've boldly moved the "(pictured)" to after the article subject, since it appears that the picture is referring to the van itself rather than the listeners. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:28, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- I am not happy with that, and please make your own ALT(s) instead of changing something with my signature under it. Here's yours:
- ALT1: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van, pictured) was a weekly travelling talk radio show of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, with participation of experts, guests and listeners?
- Formally, I haven't seen pictured in the same brackets as a translation, also how can you follow the rule to have the brackets italic for one but not the other? Content: the van is NOT pictured (compare image in the source), the program is, presenter talking to public or guests, - ok, I therefore move pictured:
- ALT2:
... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) was a weekly travelling talk radio show of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, with participation of experts and guests at the location (pictured), and of listeners? - How do you call people who come to a live radio talk? - Back to the first question: We had the "influential women" thingy already, on 7 May, still on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:11, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Those on location are the "live audience". How about
- ALT3: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) was a weekly travelling talk radio show of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, with participation of experts, guests, the live audience (pictured), and listeners?
- Jmar67 (talk) 12:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Re deletion of "guests": The article refers to experts and invited guests. Seems OK to mention them. Jmar67 (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- OK, guests back. Can you help with the nom for Pütz, arts vs. art? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:54, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Re deletion of "guests": The article refers to experts and invited guests. Seems OK to mention them. Jmar67 (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- I've boldly moved the "(pictured)" to after the article subject, since it appears that the picture is referring to the van itself rather than the listeners. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:28, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
- Going back to this nomination, I think there's potential with the hook fact (i.e. the part about the subject being a travelling radio show). However, I don't think ALT0 and its variants work out wording-wise. I'm not sure exactly how to reword it, but I think the best option would be to try to focus on the travelling part or even the van itself. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 15:21, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
- What is the objection to the wording? I could suggest
- ALT4: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van), a weekly travelling talk radio show of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, featured experts, guests, the live audience (pictured), and listeners?
- Jmar67 (talk) 20:18, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
- The thing I had with the original hook is that it didn't exactly flow well: ALT4 sounds snappier. Talk shows though tend to all have "experts, guests, live audiences, and listeners", and I think it would be a lot catchier to focus on either the travelling aspect or the van itself. I don't think radio shows that take place on the road are that common, are they? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 21:24, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
- I was expecting Gerda to pick up on this. But my question now is: how valid is this nomination in the light of the similar DYK appearance here? Jmar67 (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- I always do it like that, avoiding double and triple hooks. She had a career beyond that show, the show lasted beyond her time, - different things. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:30, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- Als, no objection means consent. What it needs is a reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:32, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- This just occurred to me:
- ALT5: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van), a weekly talk radio programme of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, was an audience participation (pictured) show on wheels?
- Jmar67 (talk) 11:07, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, in "participation (pictured) show", - the "show" comes as a surprise. How about this then:
- ALT6: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) was a weekly radio talk show on wheels of the WDR from 1974 to 2010, with audience participation (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:43, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- ALT7: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) was a long-running weekly German radio talk show on wheels, with audience participation (pictured)?
- The WDR ref has always irritated me. Jmar67 (talk) 12:55, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- I won't fight, but do Main page readers know German public radio? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:18, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- I very much doubt it. Which doesn't mean that a hook about German public radio would be disallowed, only that additional context would be needed for international readers. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:51, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
- Context would be established by a link to WDR. It could be piped:
- ALT8: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) was a long-running weekly German radio travelling talk show, with audience participation (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
- I very much doubt it. Which doesn't mean that a hook about German public radio would be disallowed, only that additional context would be needed for international readers. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:51, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
- I won't fight, but do Main page readers know German public radio? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:18, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- I was expecting Gerda to pick up on this. But my question now is: how valid is this nomination in the light of the similar DYK appearance here? Jmar67 (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
- The thing I had with the original hook is that it didn't exactly flow well: ALT4 sounds snappier. Talk shows though tend to all have "experts, guests, live audiences, and listeners", and I think it would be a lot catchier to focus on either the travelling aspect or the van itself. I don't think radio shows that take place on the road are that common, are they? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 21:24, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
- Since this has been stuck for a while, would a simple hook work?
- ALT9: ... that Hallo Ü-Wagen (Hello Radio Van) (pictured) was a long-running weekly German radio talk show on wheels?
- I mean, I don't think travelling talk shows are that common in the first place. I know of a few but they're not the norm. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:29, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, probably ready for a new reviewer. Courtesy ping Jmar67. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:04, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- ALT9 is OK with me. Jmar67 (talk) 01:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- Still needs a reviewer to formally check ALT9 and approve it (or not). Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, I would like to see this nomination passed and on the main page soon. Is there any way to put the phrase "show on wheels" into the article with a citation? Danke! Flibirigit (talk) 18:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- Isn't it the same thing as a travelling radio talk show? I asked my radio expert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:48, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- Pinging Raymie since they seem to be the DYK expert on radio articles. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- (edit conflict): Yeah, "show on wheels" (which is basically the show's name) and "travelling radio talk show" are the same thing. It seems repetitive. Personally, I thought this would have been DYK'd a loooong time ago. What's the hold up here? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:52 on July 16, 2019 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'd have to agree, repetition is a potential problem. That said, the fact a traveling program remained on the air for 36 years is really unusual. Also, while I specialize in radio, German radio isn't my specialty. ALT9 looks good to me as a hook, maybe even without the translation of the name. Raymie (t • c) 00:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- (edit conflict): Yeah, "show on wheels" (which is basically the show's name) and "travelling radio talk show" are the same thing. It seems repetitive. Personally, I thought this would have been DYK'd a loooong time ago. What's the hold up here? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:52 on July 16, 2019 (UTC)
- ALT9 is OK with me. Jmar67 (talk) 01:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:15, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, yes, a traveling radio talk show is the same thing as a show on wheels. I understand German, I have read the sources, and I know what the sources say. There is only ong thing stopping me from approving the hook. The words "show on wheels" are used in the hook, but are not used in the article. Could you please put the words into the article with an appropriate citation? I will be happy to approve the hook then. Danke Flibirigit (talk) 01:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- I obliged. Can't help thinking that the original hook was more informative. Just imagine how short the discussion could have been. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:20, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- The issue with the original hook was that it was far too complicated to be "snappy" or "hooky". Having multiple facts in the same hook is not necessarily impossible to be hooky and in fact has been done multiple times before, it's just that it tends to be tricky to allow for good flow in reading these sort of things. And the original hook couldn't really accomplish it. And I can't help but feel that the "with participation of experts, guests and listeners" was simply too much detail and the hook could have easily worked as well without it. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 06:49, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for another lesson. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:12, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- (I like to answer when-who-what-why in a hook. The focus is now on "show", but the focus of the program was interaction of groups that normally don't get together.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- The issue with the original hook was that it was far too complicated to be "snappy" or "hooky". Having multiple facts in the same hook is not necessarily impossible to be hooky and in fact has been done multiple times before, it's just that it tends to be tricky to allow for good flow in reading these sort of things. And the original hook couldn't really accomplish it. And I can't help but feel that the "with participation of experts, guests and listeners" was simply too much detail and the hook could have easily worked as well without it. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 06:49, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
- I obliged. Can't help thinking that the original hook was more informative. Just imagine how short the discussion could have been. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:20, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
ALT9 is accepted as the best option. Hook is verified by the German language sources, which I understand (AGF is not necessary). The article and hook meet all other DYK policies as outlined in previous discussions. Flibirigit (talk) 15:11, 16 July 2019 (UTC)