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Template:Did you know nominations/Before Freedom: Nehru's letters to his sister 1909-1947

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by — Maile (talk) 18:57, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

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Before Freedom: Nehru's letters to his sister 1909–1947

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Jawaharlal Nehru and his sister Nan
Jawaharlal Nehru and his sister Nan

Created by Whispyhistory (talk) and Philafrenzy (talk). Nominated by Whispyhistory (talk) at 15:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC).

  • - Whispyhistory QPQ  Done, Copyvio  Done. Article is well sourced. I have some issues on the preposed image File:Allahabad, Anand Bhawan 6 (40151268532).jpg, is this a free image? There's some notes on it only being in the public domain in India. The hook is a little confusing to me. It should probably say what "Before freedom" is, as it came across to me to be an organisation of some sort. Do we know how many of Jawaharlal's letters there were? 38 years of letters against a quantative number doesn't sit right for me. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:51, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
That's the wrong version. The image and licences are here. Philafrenzy (talk) 06:37, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for reviewing @Lee Vilenski:. I couldn't see number of letters written anywhere. Different editions have contained a diferent number. Asking @Philafrenzy: to rethink hook and comment on image please. Whispyhistory (talk) 03:36, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong with the hook. It's clear it's a book because we are talking about letters and it's italicised. As for the number, that's what the article says "She includes five letters from Nan to Nehru and two from Nehru to Ranjit." Ref. 8. The whole point of it is the contrast between 38 years' worth of letters from him but only five replies. It doesn't mean she didn't write back more, but raises the question of why they are not included which creates curiosity in the reader. Philafrenzy (talk) 06:40, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

New reviewer needed to finish the review. Philafrenzy (talk) 05:37, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I have read the article and made a few edits, with edit summaries which I hope explain what I've done and why. I have a few questions that I can't see the answers to in the article - perhaps Whispyhistory or Philafrenzy would be able to explain? Most of these are about clarity in the article, and don't specifically relate to the hook - though the last two questions here do.

  • At the end of Part three, there is a quote from Nehru: "Indu, I feel, is extraordinarily imaginative and self-centred or subjective." Who is Indu? This is the first mention of her.
    •  Done
  • Part four starts "Anand Bhawan became "desolate" following the death of Motilal Nehru in 1931 ...." It took me a minute to remember that Anand Bhawan was a house. For me, it doesn't make sense to say that a house was desolate - perhaps it felt desolate to someone - Nehru? So perhaps "Following the death of Motilal Nehru in 1931, Kamala in 1936 and the departure of Indira to attend school abroad, Nehru felt that his home Anand Bhawan had become "desolate"." Then going on "He had already tried to persuade ..."
    •  Done
  • Part six: I think the first sentence would be clearer if it said something like: "which left Nan a widow before the reformation of personal law which was completed after independence" - ?
    •  Done
  • I'm not sure what "Nehru's trust in Nan as the most responsible person to him" means?
    •  Done
  • What does "A number of footnotes are also missing" mean? Were there some footnote numbers in the book which have no corresponding footnotes?
    •  Done
  • The lead says "The book also contains a few selected letters from Nan", while the last section says "Responses to all of Nehru's letters by Nan are absent and no reason is given for the missing years between 1913 and 1925, 1928 and 1930, January to October 1941 and December 1944." Is this referring to years for which there are no letters from Nan to Nehru? The only dates mentioned for letters from Nan to Nehru are 1921 and 1931, so that doesn't really fit with "missing years between 1913 and 1925". Perhaps it would be better just to say in the lede "contains a few letters from Nan ..." if it's not clear why those letters were included and others not? Although it does seem that the two for which the date is given set the scene for that section, so perhaps it's the final section which could be made clearer. Perhaps something like "Very few of Nan's responses to Nehru's letters are included; it is not clear whether they exist and have been omitted, or whether some are missing" - or am I reading too much into this?
    •  Done Although there are letters from Nan to Nehru in 1921 and 1931, none by Nehru in these years.
  • Regarding the number of letters from Nehru to Nan: the article states that the later edition has one extra letter, so it should not be hard to say how many of Nehru's letters to Nan are published in the two editions, compared to the five letters from Nan to Nehru. I will have a think about the hook, but perhaps we could actually give a number for Nehru's letters?
    •  Done I
RebeccaGreen (talk) 17:43, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for a thorough review @RebeccaGreen:....I'll work through the points above and ping back in a few days. Whispyhistory (talk) 18:15, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
I have made some amendments. @RebeccaGreen: Please do review.
Hi Whispyhistory, that's great! I looked in a few days ago and saw you had got through most of the points. Thanks for pinging me now you've finished, and thanks for the ALT hook too. I have an idea for another one, as I think it's interesting that Nehru continued to write letters while he was imprisoned, and those are included in the book. Would you like to try writing a hook around that? I could do it, but then we would need another reviewer to approve it. You might be able to just tweak the first hook, and instead of ending "but only five of her replies?" end with something about the book including letters he wrote while jailed during the fight for independence. What do you think? RebeccaGreen (talk) 23:25, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Trying again...your thoughts @RebeccaGreen:… Whispyhistory (talk) 14:36, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
ALT2... that the book Before Freedom contains 38 years of letters from Jawaharlal Nehru to his sister Nan (siblings pictured), including some he wrote while imprisoned during India's fight for independence?
ALT3...that Before Freedom Nehru continued to write to Nan (siblings pictured) while imprisoned in India during the India's independence movement?

ALT3 approved. I have tweaked it a bit for clarity and conciseness. ALT0 and ALT1 are supported by sources in the article, but are less interesting, so I have struck them so it's clearer to promoters. Thanks for your effort and great work, Whispyhistory. I do hope the photo gets used, it's very sweet! RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks...good working with you @RebeccaGreen:...I like the image too. Whispyhistory (talk) 15:53, 17 September 2019 (UTC)


@RebeccaGreen: Re ALT3 - you approved it and struck it in the same edit. The one you tweaked is ALT2. Which one did you mean to approve? — Maile (talk) 18:37, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

*Sorry — Maile , I meant to approve ALT2, I mistakenly wrote ALT3, but struck ALT3 as I intended (it would need some tweaking to be grammatical, I think). I'll re-tick. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

ALT2 approved. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

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