Talk:Virgil Fox

Gay musician

30.15.229.189 continues to remove the Category:Gay musicians from this article. He is unidentified and without contact. I have left a post on his User talk:130.15.229.189 I knew Virgil and the category certainly fits. Doc 05:07, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

But Doc, wouldn't that amount to personal research? Uporządnicki (talk) 13:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

I have rarely read such and amount of circunstancial "stuff" about anyones sexual life as you print in your massive amounts of information about Virgil Fox. I worked for him for 17 years, I was there when the Manager was fired for very just cause,,who to retaliate then coupled with a little known but sick vindictive organist rained down revenge after Virgil was dead and couldn't sue. They combined their toxic brews to write a "get even",but laced with love,laugh and bits of authority to make it believable and saleable. It seems the giddy and the gay who thought they knew,,were quick to come out and see the Emperors new cloths and add their stamp of authenticity. Never did I ever hear Virgil Fox tell anyone he was GAY. What he did say was that he"Was an Devine Androgene that gave all the love to his art". I do know he kept from time to time many women who came and stayed in Englewood and travelled on the road from time to time with us. No one has any proof that the slop in the "Dish" is fact,,,,and it was written to specifically eliminmate all information about people,events and those in Virgils life that contributed to his success leaving a legacy about a great man, inaccurate, wrong and seeming to a world to have been a loose,gay,whatever,not the kind, gentle,personally shy man he really was that had a nack for allowing the human trash to back up on his porch rather than to have thrown it (them) out with the rest of the rubbish,,book included. No one living knows more about Virgil Fox than I do,,and THAT is a thru FACT my friends! Take it or leave it,,and that my friend will be my last words on the matter,,until possibly, my book of "Truth" is published,,and it won't be fiction!

David Snyder, Lumierist Personal Representative to Virgil Fox, Creator of the Heavy Organ Touring Production with Revelation Lights. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.44.33 (talk) 19:33, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I do rather tire of Wikipedia articles on people being added to homosexual categories (I use the term "homosexual" as a neutral one; "gay" is as much a celebration of it as "queer" or "fag" are insults) purely on the basis of, well, it's obvious and everybody knows it. But Mr. Snyder, I can't help wishing your comments had been in something a little more like English. Uporządnicki (talk) 13:01, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

External links still valid?

Does anyone know if the "Virgil Fox Society" and "Friends of Virgil Fox", are still active? If they are moribund, these External Links should be deleted from the Article per WP:EL

Twice I've attempted to contact them, once to subscribe to the Clarion and another time to order the DVD, and I never heard back either time. JGHowes 01:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Gay; personal life

I find it somewhat alarming that so little has been written about such a well-known man, especially considering that we have a Pipe Organ WikiProject. Why was he not listed in any of the GLBT musician categories? (I just added some). Why is nothing said about his personal life, domestic partner(s), years at the Hammond Castle and the organ there, etc.? Any why is so little said about his "Heavy Organ" concerts? As an openly-gay organist in the 1960s and 70s, with psychedelic and flamboyant concerts aimed at youth (what other organist did that?), I would think quite a big could/should be said about him -- he was certainly a social "trend-setter" in that regard. I am not a Virgil Fox expert, and therefore do not feel qualified to do this writing about him; however, I know he has a loyal following and fan club, so there have got to be folks able and willing to do this. Remember, with folks who died within the past 50 years, this is the one space in time where we have living people who knew the person -- it's best to take full advantage of that, as some details/secrets unfortunately get carried to the grave. IMHO, it's far better to get a good solid compendium of info during this precious window, than to hope people will be able to piece together a decent picture years down the road. Mr. P. S. Phillips (talk) 08:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

• His Heavy Organ concerts are mentioned in the very first sentence and again further down in the article there's an entire section elaborating on his ground-breaking introduction of Bach and the organ to pop culture in the 1970s -- what more needs to be said?

As to his personal sexual orientation, it's really not notable in the context of his musical artistry for which he is known. Nor could we use unsourced info. or original research. And, of course, in naming names where living persons are concerned, we have to avoid invasion of privacy and comply with WP:BLP. JGHowes ^talk - 16:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the sexual orientation categories again. Until and unless the article has a reliable source about his orientation, he can't be put in the categories. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It is hard to imagine anyone more openly gay than Virgil Fox and at a time when many were not. I'll start looking for references that can be cited. There isn't anyone that knew the man that didn't know he was gay. Doc ♬ talk 03:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, the New York Times reference (already used in the article as a citation) describes him so, and certainly Torrence's Dish book goes into much detail (perhaps too much detail, for many people's taste) about Virgil's flamboyance and occasionally outrageous behavior out of the public eye. But I've not come across any source that says Virgil ever announced publicly, "I am homosexual". In any case, his musical genius is not, and should not be, defined by his sexual orientation, whatever that was. JGHowes ^talk - 03:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm certainly not suggesting that his sexual orientation be used to define his musical genius. That is not the point. An biographical article is appropriate to describe the whole person, not just that which makes a person noteworthy for an article. Articles routinely include information on children, spouses, parents and other personal information on a persons life. As such one can hardly describe Virgil Fox accurately without mention of the fact that he was gay and very openly so. A large part of who he was as a person hinges around this. Doc ♬ talk 05:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

This article isn't about "Virgil Fox, the musician". It's about "Virgil Fox". So for it to be a well-rounded (and accurate) biographical article, all major facets of him and his life need to be given due credit -- not just the ones directly pertaining to his musical genius. And the fact that he was openly gay, in the culture/times of his hey-day, is (IMHO) a big deal. That certainly makes him a role model for other gay organists. Since most organists work for Christian churches, and since the Christian community isn't exactly known as being the most gay-loving group, ...you see where this is going. Anyhow, again, all major facets that make Virgil Fox, Virgil Fox, need to be mentioned. Thanks. Mr. P. S. Phillips (talk) 01:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for adding that - this article is shaping up *very* nicely! I was going to rate it "B", but wasn't sure what others thought? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not interested in his sexuality, but I did note Mr. P. S. Phillips's mention of Fox at the Hammond Castle above in this thread. I have a 1955 LP of Fox playing the Reubke Sonata (RCA Victor LM-1917), with Franck's Grand Piece Symphonique on the other side. As far as I know, the recording hasn't been reissued since (my copy was bought at a thrift store for $1 and is very scratched and battered - I'd give my eye teeth to get my hands on a decent one), but yet his performance of the Reubke is the most inspired and memorable I've ever heard. The dramatic fugue at the end is perfectly suited to his flamboyant style and none of the European organists I've heard playing it really get that. I get the impression that it's one of Fox's least known recorded performances (probably because you have to be a very serious organ music enthusiast even to have heard of the Reubke sonata), but it desparately deserves a good quality reissue (on 180 gram vinyl please!) and a wider hearing. LDGE (talk) 22:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fox virgil.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 Fixed JGHowes ^talk - 20:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Professional degrees?

Did Fox have a doctorate such as Mus.D? I recall being at one of his recitals which was given at Trinity Episcopal Church in Toledo in 1963 where he was introduced as "Doctor Fox". I even recall his opening number- Pasacaglia and Fugue in C minor by J. S. Bach. Musicwriter (talk) 17:09, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

No idea if he had a doctorate, but a check he used to purchase his Allen Touring Organ and the final invoice from Allen Organ Company both identify him as Dr. Virgil Fox.--Trappist the monk (talk) 15:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Virgil Fox was given his Doctorate degree by Bucknell University in the 1960's

Defense of Fox's Reputation

The following, written by User:David snyder lumierist, was moved from References:

As the PR of Virgil Fox for 17 years I know much of the accounts of Virgil's private life as dished up are simply not so.

Some of the authors of sordid information are simply poor loosers that can attack a great artist after he is dead with inventions and sensationalism in the one book written. As we all know,, because a dead mans reputation is tortured in a book,does not make it so. The Virgil Fox with whom I worked was in private a modest, quiet and shy man. A devout Christian and an unmarried man because of grief.He suffered the death of his one true love as a young man in Paris,from which he never recovered.Louise Clary's account of the Young Virgil Fox is far more reflective of the man.

I moved this text because it reflects personal opinion and personal knowledge. --Trappist the monk (talk) 16:23, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

August 1, 2014 I am deeply disturbed that this piece of trash talk,filled with inuendo about Dr. Virgil Fox,my boss for 17 years,continues to be in print,most hurtfully attached to my David Snyder, Lumierist page. I am being deeply hurt and my lifes work being marginalized because of all the "gay" trash talk about my former boss,Virgil Fox as is my reputation,my honerable work over all those 17 years. In my opinion Wikipedia breaches many "ethical codes" in Wikipedia by even allowing this stuff of which there is absoliutely no proof other than evil tongues that live to hurt innocent people and their families,such as mine. I resent it deeply. — Preceding unsigned comment added by David snyder lumierist (talk • contribs) 19:20, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Strange Wiki Policy

I note something here, particularly in the last couple of posts, which I have seen time and time again in biographical articles on Wiki. People who have direct, personal knowledge about the subject of a biography are not allowed to include it in the biography. Yet if that same person relates their personal knowledge to a third party who happens to include it in a published work, that work is an acceptable citation for including the information in the Wiki article.

Well excuse me, but this policy is ridiculous. Why is someone's direct experience less valid than that /same/ experience filtered through a third party who, at best, is only repeating its content, and at worse may have misheard, misinterpreted, or otherwise munged it?

At some point, -every- fact was uncovered as the result of "original research". I don't see that "aging" or retyping a fact multiple times makes it any more or less valid than it is as originally uncovered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.92.174.105 (talk) 21:25, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Hammond Castle

At least mention Fox's concerts at Hammond Castle, Gloucester, Mass.

Jimlue (talk) 23:10, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Riverside Church

The statement that the expansion of the Riverside Church organ to "one of the greatest" is a subjective opinion and not verifiable or objective fact. i have revised the adjective to match the reference, since the reference given is a list of the largest organs. Statements should not be broad nor should they be unfounded opinion. Regardless of the public opinion of the organ, expansion under Virgil does not instantly make it "great", but only larger. Referring to its popularity, etc. (with supporting documentation and link) is of course acceptable. Marchesa (talk) 22:17, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

The only book ever authorized by Virgil Fox is now available in limited numbers, according to his instruction to me. "Virgil Fox, his real life with secrets you never knew"

After nearly 30 years I finally finished the book, fulfilling the last promise I made to Virgil Fox. The promise that I would one day tell the world the unknown secret life of Virgil Fox so secret he ever only told three people. Secrets so painful they shaped his life. You will be shocked to find it will show that all the misguided crap written about him by people who never met him , or Newspapers that never heard him play yet placed slanderous tales about him, overlooking the fact he was and still is, the greatest organist since Bach is cruel, unjust and just plain wrong. The revelations I share at his request will knock the socks off a lot of folks that thought they knew him. They all find they only thought they knew him. He never allowed any but three people to see behind a secret door to his makeup. In the 18 years I was at his side the book tells ALL, the places we went, Virgil's secrets, the people I met, all about me and my creating of Revelation Lights to become the worlds only Classical Lumierist. I was presented on stage, to a full house at Carnegie Hall with the rare Bronze Medal given to me by the Thomas Wilfred Institute for my work in Lumia. I tell it all and share the painful last months, days and hours of his life on this earth. Buy it, be prepared to be shocked, and perhaps sorry for him for the damage done to his reputation by his former Manager he fired that got even with him by writing a sick/humorous, nasty, book trying to destroy the great Virgil Fox. The book is only available via the mail though me David Snyder, Lumierist. I hope Wikipedia will, after learning the truth about Virgil will remove the unfounded gossip still haunting their pages that are pre occupied it seems with Virgil's supposed sex life. Boy,,did they ever get it wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by David snyder lumierist (talk • contribs) 00:34, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Virgil Fox, a student of Louis Vierne?

I noticed while examining this article that in the "Studies" section it mentions Virgil Fox studied under Louis Vierne. Does anyone have a source for this? I find this unusual due to Vierne's feuding with Marcel Dupré (he wouldn't take up Dupré students) who he definitely studied with and also the fact that he was too young. Does anyone have sources on this? I'm curious.

Best regards, MarcelDuprè1886 (talk) 23:08, 27 June 2021 (UTC)