Talk:Transformers: Rise of the Beasts/Archive 1

Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2021

change the Scourge section so that it says "he could possibly have 2 vehicle modes. Shall we play a Game? (talk) 23:10, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:13, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Skydance

@Indagate, @2pou has removed Skydance over vandalism and crediting. I was asking a question if we can credit Skydance as either Skydance or Skydance Media when he thinks it shouldn't be credit due to it executive producing it. Skydance must stay on Rise of the Beasts because it's part of their involement. Removing it wouldn't make no sense at all. BMA-Nation2020 (talk) 00:06, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Um... there is no vandalism involved here. Did you read the linked discussion? Template talk:Infobox film/Archive 32#Executive producer(s). The removal was based on established norms as I linked them. Searching the archives for "Financier" will give you similar results. If there is a consensus to leave it in some form of exception, that is fine, but there was absolutely no vandalism. -2pou (talk) 00:17, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

That company is part of the film. It doesn't need to be removed from the infobox. BMA-Nation2020 (talk) 00:23, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Regarding Cheetor’s voice

I noticed in Twitter that there are rumours circulating that Cheetor being a non-speaking transformer is false, and there are no sources that prove that the character is mute. Does anyone have proof that Cheetor is mute? Blue91233 (talk) 23:51, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

The article does not say Cheetor is mute. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Just noticed the section header. I feel like before the film is released, we shouldn't be classifying any characters as "non-speaking" until we are 100% certain. Those three characters should be listed in prose at the bottom of § Transformers. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:56, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

His voice actor has not been announced yet. NoobMiester96 (talk) 23:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

And vindicated. Have a nice day. NoobMiester96 (talk) 00:24, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Entertainment One and Hasbro

I am pretty sure Entertainment One is not a production company on this movie. For one the poster billing doesn't have a mention of them, or their logo on it. Their logo does not appear in front of any of the trailers either. Compare this to another Paramount film based on a Hasbro property, Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves, which has EOne on their poster billing and in front of all their trailers. That and recent articles from reliable sources like The Hollywood Reporter mention Hasbro as a production company instead. Zingo156 (talk) 08:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2023

John DiMaggio - Transit, a Terrorcon/Decepticon who transforms into a New York City bus. Sentaliium1 (talk) 13:28, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 17:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

The source for the character is already added. I took care of that. NoobMiester96 (talk) 18:28, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Reception

The wording "deeming it an improvement over its four pre-Bumblebee installments" is a bit confusing. It seems like it's essentially saying that it was received better than 2-5, but not 2007 and Bumblebee. If so, the opening should just say this. It doesn't make sense in a chronological sense either since it wasn't received better than the previously released film. Transfo47 (talk) 12:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2023

Please edit the box office part which shows the movies garnered only 9 thousand something dollars. It is false information since the movie has already made quite a lot of profit. 103.218.171.106 (talk) 12:49, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Pinchme123 (talk) 16:40, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

September 11th accussion

I heard that it got a bunch of backlashes due to the fact that the NYC in 1994 with big storm heading, which it causes a massive controversary due to look like a NYC attacks with original WTC: https://www.indy100.com/showbiz/transformers-rise-beasts-911-trailer

And it got pulled due to this ordeal. I believe it's the marketing. Stephenfisher2001 (talk) 21:30, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I feel this was Twitter just being Twitter honestly - as regular storms over New York City would look the same. There was never anything directly linked to the towers in the movie or in the marketing, it was just a massive storm appearing over the city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:802:DF01:E1FD:FAAC:96B1:C532 (talk) 14:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Mentioning "Beast Alliance"

Is the Illuminerdi considered a reliable-enough source to put their "exclusive" on the working title of Transformers: Beast Alliance to be mentioned in the article? Comic Book Movie even talked about it, and we have one of their articles as a source, so maybe we can source CBM'S article for extra support? Iamnoahflores (talk) 21:43, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Beast Alliance was just the name of an associated toy brand - similar to how 'human alliance' was used for Transformers: Dark Of The Moon. As far as the production history goes for this film, it was originally intended as a sequel to Bumblebee and then intended as a Beast Wars movie and became what it is due to the directors influence. 2A00:23C7:802:DF01:E1FD:FAAC:96B1:C532 (talk) 14:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Reception

hi,

I saw that in the reception it says it is an improvemnt over the 5 bay installments, which while 2-5 is yes, many agree that the 2007 one is the better one, regardless of score. 118.210.38.161 (talk) 11:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

And what does this have to do with anything? TheCorvetteZR1^{(The Garage)} 17:15, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

>"I work on an IMac M1 90% of the time, the other 10% on an IPad Air"

the cringe... it hurts. 193.115.114.82 (talk) 03:12, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

you're not going to get a true reflection of the state of the series on this website. it's constantly used by hollywood studios as a platform for advertising. 193.115.114.82 (talk) 03:11, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It's not a prequel

Technically, how can you tell from a simple source (which can be easily contradicted) that this movie would be a prequel to the first five BayVerse movies, when everything suggests otherwise? I mean, as far back as 2018 several teams that have worked on the saga since the Bumblebee have made it clear (including Hasbro) that this is a reboot. We have also interviews with the film's crew (including the director Steven Caple Jr.) confirming that this is the case. Amirani1746 (talk) 19:20, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

It's a prequel to the first 2007 movie but not necessarily to the other ones which came after. 49.236.57.76 (talk) 00:00, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@49.236.57.76 it's not a prequel to any Bay-directed film, not even the first one. The sheer number of contradictions between Bumblebee itself and the first Transformers live-action film could make an entire article, let alone throwing Rise of the Beasts into the mix. Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts are a reboot of the franchise, period. Steppenwolf2018 (talk) 03:25, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Why does any of this disputed fan cruft need to be in the lead section anyway? Does anyone disagree that this film is a sequel to Bumblebee? (I hope not.) It would be better if the lead section stuck to the ?undisputed facts and simply left out all the easily avoidable WP:FANCRUFT.

As this film is set chronologically in the 1990's some people are going to say it is a prequel. Instead of arguing over this trivial question of little importance editors could instead choose not to give it any WP:WEIGHT and leave it out. -- 109.255.172.191 (talk) 16:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

It's a reboot!!!

Stupid Wikipedia people, Lorenzo di Bonaventura is a moron and needs to fired because he has no idea what he's saying. Paramount changed Bumblebee into a reboot after The Last Knight bombed at the box-office and was panned by critics, Travis Knight himself confirmed it back during an interview in 2018 and now in 2023 Steven Caple Jr. has also conrfirmed it too. Other than them reusing Jablonsky's theme this is not a prequel to Bay's films so please get rid of the "Prequel" title for Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts now! MutantX13 (talk) 13:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

There's overwhelming evidence it's a reboot. [1] --Nosecone33 (talk) 02:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Look. Everyone knows that Bumblebee made one big significant change that's incompatible with the events of The Last Knight (Bee explicitly coming to Earth for the first time in 80s, instead of being there during WWII). Nobody contests that. That alone doesn't mean the film was a total reboot; it can easily be considered to be a retcon of certain details. Everything past the first five minutes or so of Bumblebee is designed to function as a prequel to the 2007 film, showing us how the title character became who he is. Things like the change in aesthetics, not mentioning the AllSpark, the decision to have 'bots come to Earth before 2007 (which had already been retconned by The Last Knight anyway) are handwaveable; Bay's films are just as guilty of wobbly continuity that didn't line up between films, and Bumblebee (and by extension Rise of the Beasts) was nothing new in this regard. The films have not been officially promoted as continuity reboots. Whenever someone involed in production DOES use the word "reboot," it's always qualified in some way, using either vague terminology - Hasbro calling it "a new storytelling universe," Knight saying it's "essentially" a reboot, Caple saying one second "it's a reboot for sure," then moments in the same interview later walking his statement back to "I guess you could call it a reboot" - while Lorenzo DiBonaventura has actually said aloud the sentence (in the Singaporean premiere press conference): "It's not a reboot, it's a prequel." Nobody is making the definitive, inarguable statement that: "The Michael Bay movies no longer count in any capacity, and these two films are set in an entirely different continuity that will not line up with them." And until such time as they actually do, and the films are explicitly, clearly promoted as a new continuity, we can't "original research" our way into just saying they are. - Chris McFeely (talk) 16:48, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

@Chris McFeely Dude, that just won't happen and you know it. They'll never come out and say "This is a continuity reboot, the previous films don't matter" because that'll alienate the general audience that doesn't look that deep into it. So you're giving an impossible condition that you know will never be met. Typical. Steppenwolf2018 (talk) 17:36, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Well that reply came across as a tad condescending. Olimar's Tonsils (talk) 07:52, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

It's definitely a separate continuity. The only way it's connected to the bayverse is if the last four films are non-canon.Nosecone33 (talk) 15:11, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I know this is insanity, there has to be some kind of loophole or change of editing. Wikipedia should either do one of three things, One say it's a Soft-Reboot, Remove the prequel status to prevent confusion. Or take the articles and statements calling it a reboot more seriously and ignore the minor inconsistencies. I think a moderator should intervene and help us clarify this because I despise the issues this wiki is having now over these pages. --Nosecone33 (talk) 15:37, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I have a better consideration, just read through this.[2] Olimar's Tonsils (talk) 18:40, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

This encyclopedia article should try to stick to what can be confirmed by reliable sources WP:RS and avoid contentious statements. Also the lead section should be summarizing what is clear in the article body not adding anything new. Again I think it would be best to avoid the lead section mentioning anything other than the fact that this is a sequel to Bumblebee. Fans can and do care deeply about continuity, but this encyclopedia article should not be trying to solve that Gordian knot in the lead section, please cut it out. -- 109.255.172.191 (talk) 16:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2023

Rise of the Beasts underperformed but did however break even, despite being the lowest grossing film in the franchise. Comicnerd4 (talk) 20:49, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:51, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2023 (2)

Comicnerd4 (talk) 21:47, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Deauthorized. ^(talk) 22:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Watch

BV him n 43.228.110.60 (talk) 12:40, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Mid credits scene should not be included in plot section

Please note WP:FILMPLOT. relevance matters and the mid credits sequence (about Mirage) is not important and should not be included in the plot section. (Also WP:FILMPLOT is supposed to try and be concise and summarize in 400-700 words.) -- 109.255.172.191 (talk) 15:00, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I would say the scene specifically added in reshoots to confirm that the main robot character of the film survived his apparent death is relevant enough to be included. - Chris McFeely (talk) 08:55, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

The plot section needs to be shortened {{Long plot}} (see also WP:STREAMLINE). Mid or post credits scenes are less important than the main plot, it is a minor detail. Removing it would be a start towards the very necessary clean up the plot section. -- 109.78.196.97 (talk) 12:56, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

As per WP:FILMPLOT, "every important event in a film should be outlined without censoring details considered spoilers". Mirage seemingly sacrificing himself only for the mid-credit scene to reveal that he had been rebuilt is significant enough of an event to keep its inclusion in the plot section. In regards to the 400-700 word summary, I have made a revision to the plot so that it falls around that limit. GeniusReading2310 (talk) 02:15, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

The guideline used to be more clearly and strongly worded against including mid and post credits sequence at all. By definition they are something extra and are almost always non-essential. It could be presented in a much more concise and streamlined way: Mirage was gravely wounded, but survives. That this part of the story happened to be presented in the form of a credits sequence is structure not story and doesn't necessarily need to be noted (especially considering the need for brevity). That Mirage was repaired using Porsche parts specifically does not seem to be essential either. Maybe you really believe that of the limited 400-700 word count this scene really deserves words more than other parts of the film. I remain skeptical that this mid credits sequence really is an "important event", when weighed up objectively, they very rarely are. -- 109.77.197.77 (talk) 04:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Plot

I wrote a high quality plot summary but it keeps being undone. First of all, I don't think there are any rules on Wikipedia for how long users have to wait before adding a plot summary. Secondly, the premiere is already out. I don't think we're required to wait for the US release date. What is the full rule and if I'm right please let my plot summary be added.Nosecone33 (talk) 19:22, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

The dark god, Unicron nears the Maximal homeworld and sends down Scourge and his minions to steal technology before he devours the planet. Apelinq, the leader of the Maximals and asks Primal and the others to use the Transwarp Key to escape. He decides to stay behind and fend off Scourge allowing them to escape. He names Primal the new leader of the Maximals. Scourge kills Apelinq while the other Maximals escape through a transwarp portal to prehistoric Earth.

In 1994 Brooklyn, Noah, an ex-military electronics expert, is struggling to look for a job to support his family. His brother has a blood disease, and they can't afford the treatment. Elena is an intern at a museum and artifact researcher. Elena notices a bird sculpture with a Maximal symbol and bizarre markings recovered from an auction, she breaks it, and inside is a Transwarp key that activates and emits an energy signature that's detected by the Transformers. At this time, Noah was desperate for cash, so he decides to take up Reek's offer to steal rich people's cars and sell them. After breaking into Mirage, he's forced to team up with him. Optimus Prime notices the transwarp signature and puts a call out to all the Autobots to assemble.

Noah and Mirage start to bond. When Optimus arrives, he is annoyed that Mirage has brought back a human. Arcee scans Noah's face, reads his bio, and notes that he's an ex-soldier. Optimus discovers that Autobots need the Transwarp Key to get back to Cybertron. They organize a museum robbery. So Mirage volunteers Noah. Noah sneaks in and grab the Key for them. The Terrorcons enter the city following the Transwarp Keys signature. At the museum, The Terrorcons attack, Scourge unleashes two Freezers to chase them while the Autobots come in to engage the Terrorcons. Noah and Elena manage to run out of the museum and evade the Freezers. Scourge kills Bumblebee and is about to kill Prime, when Airazor swoops in and helps fend off the Terrorcons. They decide to retreat because they already have the Key.

Optimus and the gang follow Airazor to figure out what's going on. Airazor explains that she is a Maximal, a time traveling race of Transformers trying to stop Unicron. Optimus knows of Unicron. Airazor notes that Scourge is a herald of Unicron. Here, it is revealed that Scourge only has half of the Key because the Maximals broke it into two to keep it safe. Elena discovers the other half of the Key must be in Peru because the same symbols on the bird statue were only ever recorded on a temple in Peru. The Autobots are now going to go to Peru, and Noah insists on coming along. They then set off to Peru on Stratosphere, an autobot who transforms into a cargo plane. In Peru, they meet up with Wheeljack, who helps track down the temple entrance with Elena's coordinates. There is a huge parade/celebration going on, and Noah and Elene blend into the crowd.

They Autobots enter the temple as Scourge and the Terrorcons arrive, they discover that the other half of the Transwarp Key is no longer there. It had been moved. A terrorcon drone called a Freezer attacks Noah and Elena, and they run deeper into the caverns. The Autobots spring into action, and so do the Terrorcons. There is a huge battle on the road and a rematch between Prime and Scourge. Nightbird and Battletrap fight Arcee, Wheeljack, and Mirage. They then emerge out of a cave in the jungle. Airazor blasts the bridge to prevent Scourge and the other Terrorcons from following. Scourge corrupts Airazor with a weapon. The Maximals find the Autobots and Airazor comes in to defuse the situation and introduce the other Maximals. Primal says that he's named after Optimus himself and that it's an honor to meet him. Primal and the others explain that they have the other half of the Transwarp Key. He also says that Maximals are an advanced race dedicated to the expansion of life throughout the universe, but now they're just staying on Earth to protect the life here and to protect the Transwarp Key. The Maximals lead them to a little village of humans, the descendants of the tribe of humans who have watched over the Maximals and have shared their culture with them.

The next day, Elena wakes up and sees Airazor under Scourge's corruption. She flies off, and Prime and Primal realize that Scourge and the other Terrorcons are coming. The Terrorcons arrive and manage to snatch the Transwarp Key while Airazor comes in and snatches up Elena. Primal jumps in to save her. Primal and Airazor fight and Primal is forced to kill her. Scourge has both halves of the key. He goes to the top of a volcano and combines the two. This creates a tower for Scourge to set the Key in, and it starts to open a portal in the sky for Unicron to come in. From the walls of the tower spawn a ton of Terrorcon drones. The Autobots and Maximals will fight the Terrorcons while the humans will sneak in through the tiny access tunnels and go to the console in the middle of the tower to enter the code.

The Autobots and Maximals team up to fight the Terrorcons. During the battle, Bumblebee is resurrected and awakened. Mirage takes on Scourge to distract him, but Mirage gets punched aside and Noah gets grabbed by Scourge. Regardless, Mirage shields Noah from Scourge's cannon fire and transforms into an exosuit for him. Noah starts to take on Scourge but is obviously outmatched. Prime then comes in to fight Scourge together with Noah. Scourge once again overpowers Prime. Unicron starts coming to earth through the Transwarp portal. Stratosphere flies in overhead and Bumblebee jumps out. All this time, Elena was running from a Freezer, trying to get to the console, and entering the access code. Even though she manages to enter it, the console gets destroyed as Scourge and Prime fight. Unicron sends Predacon drones called Scorponoks to aid in the battle. Prime kills Scourge and prepares to destroy the Terrorcon tower. Noah and the others start to run away. Prime destroys the Transwarp Key and is nearly sucked into the portal. Noah uses his exosuit to save Optimus and Primal saves them both. Optimus Primal reveals that Unicron must have survived the portal collapse and they he could return. Prime claims that he isn't afraid of Unicron as he has gained an important ally. Noah goes and applies for a security job and Elena gets recognition for the temple discovery in Peru. During an interview, Noah is recruited by a man who knows how Noah helped save the world from Unicron. The man's business card says G.I. Joe.

In a mid-credits scene, Noah manages to repair Mirage.Nosecone33 (talk) 19:24, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

One problem, there's too many words. It should be between 400-700 for a summary.

You just spoiled the whole thing. NoobMiester96 (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

learn to cope or delete your wiki account. 193.115.114.82 (talk) 03:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I created a shortened plot description.

Plot

The dark god, Unicron devours a planet inhabited by the Maximals and sends down Scourge and the Terrorcons. Apelinq, the Maximal leader, sacrifices himself to allow some Maximals to escape to prehistoric earth leaving Optimus Primal in charge.

In 1994 Brooklyn, Noah, an ex-military electronics expert, is struggling to look for a job to support his family. Elena is an intern at a museum and artifact researcher. Elena notices a bird sculpture with a Maximal symbol and bizarre markings. She accidentally triggers and it turns out to be a Transwarp Key. Noah, breaks into Mirage thinking he's just a car he can steal. Optimus Prime notices the transwarp signature and puts a call out to all the Autobots to assemble. Noah discovers Mirage is a transformer and they start to bond. Optimus discovers that Autobots need the Transwarp Key to get back to Cybertron. They organize a museum robbery, Mirage volunteers Noah. Noah sneaks in and grab the Key for them. The Terrorcons enter the city following the Transwarp Keys signature. Bumblebee is killed and Scourge steals the Transwarp Key. Optimus is saved by a Maximal named Airazor.

The Autobots follow Airazor who explains that she is a Maximal, a time traveling race of Transformers trying to stop Unicron. Airazor notes that Scourge is a herald of Unicron. She claims the Maximals split the Transwarp Key in half. Elena discovers the other half of the Key must be in Peru. The Autobots and Noah travel to Peru on Stratosphere, an autobot who transforms into a cargo plane. In Peru, they meet up with Wheeljack, who helps track down the temple entrance with Elena's coordinates. They Autobots enter the temple as Scourge and the Terrorcons arrive, they discover that the other half of the Transwarp Key is gone. The Autobots and Terrorcons battle for the key. Scourge corrupts Airazor with a weapon. The Autobots meet the Maximals. Optimus Primal says that Maximals are an advanced race dedicated to the expansion of life throughout the universe and to protect the Transwarp Key. The Maximals lead them to a human village, the descendants of the tribe of humans who have watched over the Maximals. Elena notices Airazor is corrupted as she flies off. The Terrorcons arrive and steal the other half of the Transwarp Key while Airazor tries to kill Elena. Primal saves Elena and is forced to kill Airazor. Scourge goes on top of a volcano and combines the two Transwarp Keys. This opens a portal in the sky for Unicron to come in.

The Autobots and Maximals team up to fight the Terrorcons while Elina looks for an access code. During the battle, Bumblebee is resurrected and awakened. Mirage shields Noah from Scourge's cannon fire and transforms into an exosuit for him. Noah starts to take on Scourge but is outmatched. Prime then comes in to fight Scourge together with Noah. Scourge once again overpowers Prime. Unicron starts coming to earth through the Transwarp portal. Stratosphere flies in overhead and Bumblebee jumps out. Elena gets to the console, and enters the access code. Even though she manages to enter it, the console gets destroyed as Scourge and Prime fight. Unicron sends scorpion drones to aid in the battle. Prime kills Scourge and prepares to destroy the Terrorcon tower. Noah and the others start to run away. Prime destroys the Transwarp Key and is nearly sucked into the portal. Noah uses his exosuit to save Optimus and Primal saves them both. Optimus Primal reveals that Unicron must have survived the portal collapse and they he could return. Prime claims that he isn't afraid of Unicron as he has gained an important ally. Noah goes and applies for a security job and Elena gets recognition for the temple discovery in Peru. During an interview, Noah is recruited by a man who knows how Noah helped save the world from Unicron. The man's business card says G.I. Joe.

In a mid-credits scene, Noah manages to repair Mirage. Nosecone33 (talk) 20:30, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

It's only 663 words. We should leave it on the page so users can enhance it as the film gets closer.Nosecone33 (talk) 20:31, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah no. I'm sorry but we're not gonna post spoilers for the movie anymore. NoobMiester96 (talk) 02:06, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

It's appropriate to restore the plot, per WP:SPOIL. 2601:19E:4180:6D50:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 14:31, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

For future reference Wikipedia has a policy WP:SPOILERS which states "It is not acceptable to delete information from an article because you think it spoils the plot." This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, and informing readers takes priority. If a film has been released then the plot can be added, and that includes if a film has not yet been released in America. In the past WP:FILM have expressed concerns about potential inaccuracies in plot sections being added early and it being very difficult to WP:VERIFY it and avoid inaccuracies, but lack of WP:SOURCEACCESS is still not an excuse to delete the Plot section. It is up to readers to choose not to look at a film article if they don't want the plot spoiled but I would encourage editor to keep the plot in the plot section (not the lead section, and not the cast section) and not in great big dumps on the talk page, please. Thanks. -- 109.77.197.77 (talk) 00:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2023

Transformers: Rise of the Beasts is not a prequel to Transformers (2007). The director said it himself that Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts is a rebooted timeline. 96.241.58.93 (talk) 15:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Your request will be summarily dismissed because you didn't follow the instruction in the template, specifically the format "please change X to Y".

You need to show your sources. You need to read the previous discussions above. -- 109.77.196.204 (talk) 18:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: ^^ ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 19:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Reboot confirmed

Steven caple just did an interview on YouTube and he said it’s full reboot from the bay films Higgs2k10 (talk) 00:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Are you sure about that chief? NoobMiester96 (talk) 02:17, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Watch the interview and see for yourself 2A00:23A8:4C90:E501:E436:4F21:9EDF:2219 (talk) 10:31, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

It's a prequel to the films. It's part of Bay's multiverse for the franchise. If you read it up, they are actually committing to it and are connecting all the universe's through the multiverse like MCU and DCU. There might be another Transformers verse after RotB focused entirely on the Beast Wars which also delved into G1 as a prequel. Or like the

Unicron Trilogy/Aligned Continuity. So one person's claims are not factual and because he is the director. Doesn't mean he is the origin setter. That is actually the writers and Paramount/Hasbro who confirm it. DragonofBatley (talk) 10:45, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Where is this so called confirmation Of a multiverse by hasbro? Higgs2k10 (talk) 10:55, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Here. NoobMiester96 (talk) 17:39, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Then it shouldn't be labeled as a prequel since the story is separate from the Bay films and in an other universe. It being labeled as the seventh film in the film franchise is good enough. Cantomic66 21:21, 17 August 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cantomic66 (talk • contribs)

Themes from the original films are being reprised in this one. InfiniteNexus (talk) 00:40, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@InfiniteNexus How does that factor into the previous movies being in the same contunuity? Danny Elfman reprised his silly Flash theme in a track Doctor Strange 2 soundtrack, does that mean Josstice League is part of the MCU? Steppenwolf2018 (talk) 03:29, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

That was clearly an uninentional blunder that isn't comparable to this situation. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:48, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

It's 100% a Reboot.

Bumblebee and Rise of the Beasts are not prequels to Michael Bay's film series and there's plenty of evidence that supports this. In The Last Knight, Unicron was the Earth and now in Rise in the Beasts he's his own G1 planet form. Bumblebee and ROTB are clearly set in a seperate universe far from the Bay films. MutantX13 (talk) 04:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it's not the first instance of the Transformers films breaking continuity with each other, as it has happened as early as Revenge of the Fallen with the military using weapons they previously established to be ineffective against Decepticons. With all the important people involved either being vague, or proclaiming that the newer films are prequels, the consensus is that it is a prequel, despite the contradictions. GeniusReading2310 (talk) 02:30, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not done with all my evidence on the reboot yet, mister. In The Last Knight, Bumblebee arrived on Earth in WW2 but in the 2018 reboot he arrived in a 1987 setting of Earth, Prime and the Autobots arrived in the same time as well. Also how do you explain the sudden appearance of The Maximals or even frickin G.I.Joe? The only person saying these are prequels is producer, Lorenzo di Bonaventura, but film directors Steve Caple Jr. and Travis Knight have said that these films are in a rebooted universe. I'm telling you the next Transformers film they announce will be a sequel to Rise of the Beasts setting in maybe 1999 with Megatron (voiced by Frank Welker) and the Decepticons returning as the villains. MutantX13 (talk) 03:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Anecdotes and original research are not "evidence". (The director of Beasts said "It doesn’t mess up any of the timeline in 2006, 2007." [3] if he said reboot somewhere else you need to show your sources. I have not seen Knight calling Bumblebee a reboot either. You must show reliable sources.) Fans are welcome to discuss this endlessly but the only thing been proved here is that this language is contentious and it would be better if this encyclopedia article avoided it. -- 109.77.198.93 (talk) 14:12, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

But Bumblebee the character not the film is more of a unified character from the live action franchise. There is reasons to why Megatron wasn't in either Bumblebee or Rise of the Beasts because if Megatron broke out of the ice before the 2006-2007 part of the timeline that would be a major retcon for the franchise.

Bumblebee (Transformers film series) first chronological appearance is: Bumblebee (2018) if you ignore that one World War II scene from Transformers: The Last Knight (2017). Plan and simple.

Jon Bailey AKA epic voice guy said Bumblebee was a preboot.

Unic 2603:6011:6400:FCF1:EC7A:DB4:CF2C:1246 (talk) 17:55, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Sequel

What does "direct sequel" actually mean? How exactly is it any different from a sequel. Does the distinction need to be given weight in the intro even though it has not been made clear in the article body. More importantly what reliable sources are saying direct sequel? -- 109.79.84.219 (talk) 22:31, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Anonymous editors persist in pushing this "direct sequel" nonsense[4] like as if it actually means anything or as if this series was ever strict about continuity. No explanation was provided and no new sources were provided to support the change. Even when we get to see the film it will likely still be a subjective opinion how directly a sequel follows or not. -- 14:33, 13 February 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.204.119 (talk)

The mention of sequel in the lead section has since been changed to claim this is a "stand-alone sequel". The claim that it somehow "stands alone" is subjective, original research (how can we possibly know until the film is released), and at worst it is fancruft speculation about canon, none of which needs to be given attention in the lead section.

I fear this unsourced claim may have already been in the article too long and will lead to WP:CITOGENESIS if it is not promptly removed. As Variety said[5] the films "weren’t exactly sticklers for the laws of time and space, either". Fans will be fans and debate this but an encyclopedia should not be encouraging dubious subjective claims that a film is somehow a stand-alone sequel or that is somehow a detail that is even important. -- 109.79.167.143 (talk) 13:02, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Direct sequel also works because Transformers: Rise of the Beasts picks up where Bumblebee ended. Where Optimus Prime is so desperate to get back to Cybertron And the cybertron scene from that film sets Optimus Prime's master plan to retake Cybertron but first they have to take refuge on Earth in that Bumblebee was assigned to protect the planet. At the end of the Bumblebee movie, Bumblebee and Charlie prevented the Decepticon invasion that Shatter and Dropkick almost started. Transit's involvement in Rise of the Beasts would had retconned the ending of Bumblebee which would explain why Transit was cut from Rise of the Beasts. 2603:6011:6400:FCF1:EC7A:DB4:CF2C:1246 (talk) 18:05, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

In a May 2023 interview, the director said it is "standalone" but also that it preserves the continuity.[6] Even if I think it is nearly meaningless, and a bad idea to highlight the word standalone in the lead section, at least it is sourced in the article body now. -- 109.76.136.61 (talk) 23:20, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I still think it is utterly pointless to highlight the word standalone in the lead section as Noobmeister[7] insists and persists in doing. When have you ever heard a director admit that you really need to have seen the previous films in a series to appreciate the current one they are trying to sell? Filmmakers always want people to go see their film even if audiences have not seen earlier films in the series, and will frequently claim their story is standalone. The reality about how much a story might actually stand alone and coherent or understandable to viewers if far more subjective. The alleged faithfulness or lack of continuity or how much a story might standalone is just more WP:FANCRUFT and it would be far better if this encyclopedia avoided mentioning it at all. It is a shame that Noobmeister does not explain in his edit summaries WP:DISCUSS or why he believes it is so necessary to emphasize the word. -- 109.76.134.53 (talk) 20:38, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Prequel?

Wasn't it already said that Bumblebee was now considered a series reboot? Where is a source stating this still takes place before the 2007 movie? 2600:1012:B1AB:2BB7:E877:2093:E23A:AB43 (talk) 23:29, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Right here. And to be frank, the movies aren't usually "exactly sticklers for the laws of time and space". People who claim that Bumblebee is a reboot is nothing but an example of contrarianism. Just think of the movie timeline as just Aqua Teen Hunger Force when it comes to ignoring continuity and stuff. NoobMiester96 (talk) 01:47, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

i disagree that the source states this is a prequel.

The director is acknowledging the time gap, and definitely paying homage and considering the Bay movies, but I think saying it's a prequel, without better sourcing, is original research. 2A02:C7C:C4CD:A500:4954:8407:D9DA:A3EA (talk) 22:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

The director and many others called it a reboot. They even removed all the prequel elements to make it clear in the film that the movie is separate from the Bay films. Cantomic66 21:11, 17 August 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cantomic66 (talk • contribs)

And the final nail to the coffin. No Reboot. Pack it up everyone, the 4 year debate is over. NoobMiester96 (talk) 05:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I do not think this is as clear and conclusive as NoobMiester96 is making it out to be but I can only guess that he is looking at the line "It doesn’t mess up any of the timeline in 2006, 2007." and taking that to mean that it is all one continuity and therefore that implies that it is not a reboot. I do think it is unhelpful to ordinary readers even mention the "reboot" claim and agree would be better if it was not included at all. -- 109.76.136.61 (talk) 23:35, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm with 109.76 here. I think it's vague and it's reaching to call it a prequel, at least at this point.

Perhaps a better approach would be to quote that part of the article in the production section?

As it stands tho we're making a pretty bold claim from a vague line in one interview. 2A02:C7C:C4CD:A500:4954:8407:D9DA:A3EA (talk) 22:17, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

@2600:1012:B1AB:2BB7:E877:2093:E23A:AB43 Rise of the Beasts isn't a prequel! It's a reboot! Logically: in The Last Knight, Unicron is Earth; In Rise of the Beasts he is like his Generation One counterpart. SpyderFrydge (talk) 09:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

The only one who's said this is a prequel was Lorenzo di Bonaventura. The director himself says this is a reboot and a sequel to Bumblebee, with no connection to prior films outside of music. 2603:6080:AE03:39ED:33B7:FFCC:7949:1133 (talk) 13:27, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I am still very much confused why this is listed as a prequel. Even WHEN looking at the source provided. 2601:646:9B83:67D0:1873:A0C9:F094:8A13 (talk) 05:58, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Beasts is set in the '90s which is chronologically earlier than Transformers (film) (2007) and on that chronological information alone some people are going to think it is therefore logical to call it a prequel. This series has never been big about continuity, and everytime there are contradictions or continuity errors some fans feel strongly that this means the latest episode of the series must be a reboot, not that it means much. The filmmakers are going to try to avoid saying anything that might put audiences off going to see their movie, they are going to be evasive and try to avoid labelling it. This encyclopedia needs to look at what the reliable sources say and carefully consider what should be given due weight and what makes a good informative encyclopedia article. It is clear fans care deeply about canon and continuity, but I'm not so sure crowbarring it into the lead section really helps inform encyclopedia readers. -- 109.78.192.125 (talk) 14:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Jon Bailey from Screen Junkies said Bumblebee was a preboot on Instagram. If nobody knows what a preboot is I will tell ya, preboot is both prequel and reboot 2603:6011:6400:FCF1:EC7A:DB4:CF2C:1246 (talk) 18:08, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2023

2603:6011:6400:FCF1:EC7A:DB4:CF2C:1246 (talk) 17:46, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

I have autism and I would like to add prequel to the 2007 film but leave standalone sequel to Bumblebee the way it is.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 22:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Underperformance at the Box Office

Don't wanna be "That Guy" and all, but how much money was this movie supposed to make anyway to break-even, $600 Million? 141.239.235.96 (talk) 03:59, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I am that guy. But before adding it to an encyclopedia I want to hear it from reliable sources and so far only Screenrant and Slashfilm have reported on it (Reddit is obviously not an acceptable source for an encyclopedia). We also have to remember that this film has not yet been released in Japan (Aug 4) and could earn another $10-20 million and may yet gross a little bit more than Bumblebee worldwide.

Slashfilm listed the biggest bombs of 2023 so far (on June 26) and included Rise of the Beasts. They point out that Bumblebee was a winner relative to its smaller budget, and Beasts cost more, so only matching Bumblebee would not be a good result.

Screenrant asks if Rise of the Beasts is a flop and by their estimation it has broken even at the box office. They even say "Movies generally need to make around 2.5 times their budgets to break even" but Beasts has not yet made 2.5 times the budget i.e. $500 million (2.1x according to the Numbers at the time of writing) so they are contradicting themselves almost immediately. To mitigate this they generously assume that the marketing spend was low (unlikely, but with tie-in and brand cross-promotion rather than direct spending it might possibly be true). They also fail to consider that nearly $100 million of the gross for Beasts comes from China, and China keeps a much bigger share than most countries.

Screenrant is a lousy self-contradicting source, I don't know why it was added to the article[8] and I would recommend reverting it. -- 109.79.161.115 (talk) 22:37, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

CAVEAT: being directly profitable at the box office might not even matter to Hasbro if they break even after licensing and home media sales. More importantly if they are making huge money selling toys they might keep the films going as a loss leader.

I'm waiting for post mortem on Beasts from better sources like Deadline Hollywood, or The Hollywood Reporter. (I don't think Scott Mendelson does much box office analysis anymore since he is no longer with Forbes). If anyone can find sources about how much was spent on any parts of the marketing campaign that could be very informative. Again I'd recommend waiting for better sources before adding anything to this encyclopedia article. -- 109.78.192.125 (talk) 14:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you kindly. 141.239.235.96 (talk) 17:14, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Slashfilm are calling it "officially" the lowest grossing in the series (August 15). Slashfilm concludes it "fell short of breaking even but didn't outright bomb" and that it could become profitable after home media sales (not to mention the all important toy and merchandise sales). I guess you can call that "officially" settled, but other sources had already jumped to that conclusion weeks ago based on projections. As far as I can tell Japan was the last country to release, it has finished its US domestic run, and is already available to stream on Paramount. The box office gross numbers are unlikely to change substantially, this film is not going to gross more than Bumblebee. As Lorenzo Di di Bonaventura said "continuity's overblown", so more films seem inevitable. -- 109.76.129.23 (talk) 23:07, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2023

In the box office section of the article, please replace X:
Despite its low overall performance at the box office, the film was a massive success in [[Peru]], earning $6,165,943 in its opening week, according to Box Office Mojo.<ref>{{Cite web |date=June 15, 2023 |title=Transformers: Rise of the Beasts - Box Office Mojo |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230615003107/https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt5090568/?ref_=bo_tt_tab |website=Box Office Mojo}}</ref> As of August 10, 2023, it is the higgest-grossing film in Peru of all time

with Y, as follows:
The film broke records in [[Peru]], where it earned $6,165,943 in its opening week,<ref name="BOM" /> and as of August, 2023, it is the highest-grossing film in Peru of all time

(Copyedit for brevity, and because claims of one thing being "despite" the other are simply unnecessary, because "success" is subjective and unnecessary, and because the duplicate box office mojo reference was unnecessary, and also spelling.) -- 109.77.198.20 (talk) 18:21, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done Retained "Despite its low overall performance at the box office," and retained the full date "August 10, 2023". ayakanaa ( t · c ) 02:58, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

There is a reason why the change X to Y format exists. I urge editors to take the changes as they were given. After that then please do feel free to make your own further changes (or mistakes) as you see fit, but by attempting to selective apply the changes obvious mistakes have been repeated again. As for more subjective changes brevity is better writing, and redundancy is unnecessary. It has already clearly been stated that the film failed financially in the paragraph directly above, it does not need to be stated ("Despite ...") again, the positive note about breaking records in Peru can stand on its own. I ask once again that editors to take the changes X to Y as they were given. -- 109.78.196.228 (talk)

 Done ayakanaa ( t · c ) 03:14, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately despite the good faith efforts to more closely follow my request it is clear that again the changes were made indirectly, not by cutting and pasting what was asked directly. The strict format of change X to Y benefits both the editor and the submitter. To repeat and directly quote and my change request description said one of the many problems was "and also spelling." and if my request to directly replace X with Y had actually been followed.

Of all the many things that Wikipedia has done over the years the failure to add any built-in spell checking was and remains a phenomenally dumb decision. If my request had been followed directly (or anyone had done a spell check) the article would not still be claiming to be the higgest [sic]-grossing film. -- 109.79.161.129 (talk) 14:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

This movie wasn’t considered a financial disappointment.

The movie was a success. A small one but a success nonetheless. There’s no sources that say it’s a financial disappointment. 2600:4040:40FC:B900:10E0:BF6D:FECB:A685 (talk) 02:27, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

It's already sourced. 141.239.235.96 (talk) 01:42, 20 September 2023 (UTC)