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Talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C./Archive 5

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Latest comment: 5 years ago by Hzh in topic Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2019
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Pronunciations of Tottenham

Latest comment: 7 years ago25 comments4 people in discussion

I added a pronunciation, [ˈtɒʔnəm], that was in one of the existing sources. But this pronunciation was removed, as was the source. The reasons for removal were very unclear: "not əm" and "glottal stop not phonemic". The glottal stop is found on the IPA page for English, and on the Wiki page for the glottal stop it even says "In English, the (phonemic) glottal stop ...", so claiming the glottal stop isn't phonemic doesn't make sense at all. Aikclaes (talk) 05:47, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@Mr KEBAB: said (ə|m not əm; glottal stop not phonemic so rm) so I went be that. Yours doesn't make sense either, how does a ? "uh-oh" (glottal stop) make Totten'ham? You don't add a glottal stop in it do you?, The 1st reference you added seems very incorrect in pronunciation. She even pronounces it wrong, she says Totnem! When it should sound more like Tot'Ten'ham. As for 2, only one user has pronounced it correctly as that's Topquark, but because that's a site which allows users to add their own content that actually deemed unreliable and shouldn't even be used. So you're interpretation is floored if you're allowing these poor sources to influence you. I am inclined to revert it back. Govvy (talk) 18:12, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: No, you didn't quote @Mr KEBAB:'s argument correctly. It's better to use your own arguments, than copy others, especially if you don't understand them. It's difficult discussing English phonology with someone who obviously has no training in it. I simply don't understand what you're trying to say. And I'm not sure if you mean you think my interpretation is "floored" or "flawed", but Forvo is used as a source for lots of pronunciations here on Wikipedia, for instance Augusto Pinochet. It gets kind of surreal when you start reviewing the different pronunciations there and decide which ones are correct, based on personal taste. Aikclaes (talk) 05:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Aikclaes: Please ping me when you're discussing my edits. The reasons weren't unclear, you need to read phoneme and allophone. The glottal stop you're talking about is the glottal stop in uh-oh [ˈʔʌʔoʊ], not the glottal stop in Tottenham [ˈtɒʔnəm]. In uh-oh, one could argue that the glottal stop has a phonemic status, since it appears in a syllable-final position after /ʌ/ which can never occur syllable-finally (save for word-internal unstressed syllables). The first glottal stop of uh-oh can be argued to be /ʌ/ pronounced with a mandatory hard attack (a glottal stop before a vowel). Phonetic, but mandatory (you don't normally say uh-oh with just one glottal stop, do you?) But in Tottenham the glottal stop is an allophone of /t/, not a phoneme. You can say [ˈtɒʔnəm] or [ˈtɒtnəm] and you'll be understood. But you can't pronounce uh-oh as [ˈtʌtoʊ]. Here's a quote from the 8th edition of Gimson's Pronunciation of English:
Some GB (=General British) replace (sic) syllable-final /p, t, k/ by [ʔ] when a consonant follows, no oral closure being made. Such glottal replacement most commonly affects /t/ when the following consonant is homorganic, i.e. /t, d, tʃ, dʒ, n, l, r/ as in (...) witness, not now (...) Use of [ʔ] to replace /t/ in other positions, i.e. before syllabic [n̩] and [l̩], e.g. in cotton, (...) eat an apple, bat and ball (...) was until recently stigmatised as non-GB but all except [ʔl̩] are now acceptable in London RGB (=London Regional General British=Estuary English).
Calling the glottal realization of /p, t, k/ 'replacement' was a bad choice because /p, t, k/ are enclosed within phonemic slashes.
The lead of glottal stop was wrong and I corrected it. Mr KEBAB (talk) 18:41, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: Sorry, but you're wrong in calling the [ˈtɒʔnəm] pronunciation incorrect. It's a completely natural pronunciation in England. The only thing that is wrong is that the source incorrectly encloses the transcription within phonemic slashes (*/ˈtɒʔnəm/). They should've written [ˈtɒʔnəm] or /ˈtɒtnəm/, [ˈtɒʔnəm]. Mr KEBAB (talk) 18:56, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
I've just checked the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (3rd ed.) and the Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary (18th ed.). The RP recordings say [ˈtɒʔnəm] in both dictionaries. In the LPD, the GA recording says [ˈtɑːtnəm]. In the CEPD it says [ˈtɑːtənəm]. Mr KEBAB (talk) 19:06, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB:, the CEPD version seems more natural to me for the modern pronunciation , the others seem to derive out of either the old or the slang, if you goto Tottenham it says "It was recorded in the Domesday Book as Toteham" So are should we have the modern next to the old? Govvy (talk) 19:39, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB: Thanks for your insight. So, there's no reason to leave out the pronunciation [ˈtɒʔnəm] in this article then, is there? Aikclaes (talk) 05:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Aikclaes: The transcription you want to reinstate is /ˈtɒʔnəm/, not [ˈtɒʔnəm]. The latter is phonemically /ˈtɒtnəm/ and it's already in the article. The former is just plain wrong for the reasons explained above. Again, you need to read phoneme and allophone. Mr KEBAB (talk) 05:19, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB: Okay, fair enough. Thanks. Aikclaes (talk) 05:31, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Unless you actually want to add [ˈtɒʔnəm] (enclosed within phonetic brackets) to the article. There's no need to do that either, since the glottalization is perfectly obvious from the fact that the /t/ is unstressed, postvocalic and appears before /n/. It's automatic. Mr KEBAB (talk) 05:23, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: I'm not sure what you mean. Mr KEBAB (talk) 19:53, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
Is the IPA not derivative of pronounce of Tottenham? Because there is old English, modern English and slang, are they not taken into account for IPA? Govvy (talk) 20:43, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: IPA transcriptions of English tell us how the word is pronounced in natural speech in modern English in two reference accents: Received Pronunciation and General American. Old English has nothing to do with this. What you call "slang" are actually hundreds of regional accents that are perceived as "non-standard". That's also not the topic of this discussion. (Redacted) Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:00, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
@Mr KEBAB:, I was born in London and English is my native language, IPA is a different more advanced level of English, I have been trying to get my brain around it, which can be annoying because I grew up with dyslexia. I hope we aren't using American here for an English article. What I am trying to get my head around is why the phonic is /ˈtɒtnəm/, because (Ten) as saying the Number 10 (Ten) is part of the modern pronunciation, the middle part of Tottenham, the E isn't silent and shouldn't be silent, why one of the previous sources provided which you remove said the E was silent I didn't understand that. My gut is telling me the IPA is wrong. You should listen to they way the professional readers read out the scores of football matches and how they pronounce Tottenham, Govvy (talk) 20:47, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: (Redacted) Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:00, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
lying? trolled? I don't understand. I am trying to understand why it says Totnem! I am reading the IPA if it was plain English, I really don't understand it, how are other people suppose to understand it? It's not normal English, Dutch or even Chinese. Govvy (talk) 21:05, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: (Redacted) Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:08, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
FFS, watch this and see how he pronounces Tottenham, FA Cup Final 1967. Govvy (talk) 21:10, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: He says /ˈtɒtnəm/, with two syllables. Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:12, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and consider your mistakes to be genuine (I'm still puzzled by the overly definitive tone of your messages, but let's put it aside). Did you grow up in Norwich or Chicago by any chance? These accents have /ɛ/ that is so central that it can be mistaken for a schwa. It would explain why you thought that 'ten' in 'Tottenham' is pronounced as the number 'ten', but it wouldn't explain why you considered the disyllabic version to be wrong (which it clearly isn't, it's as standard as the trisyllabic one). I still don't quite understand the situation. Mr KEBAB (talk) 21:37, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Nope, I grew up in Tottenham and Southgate! :/ Govvy (talk) 21:43, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
@Govvy: Ok. In that case, I still don't understand. Mr KEBAB (talk) 15:32, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I'd change it to the 18 February 2017 version from the Tottenham article. This edit updates the version that had existed in the article for a long time, removing a depreciated character. This seems to accurately reflect the ways that Tottenham is pronounced and any change should have a clear and sourced reason (not just removing a source).

Tottenham (/ˈtɒtnəm, -tənəm/;[1] locally /ˈtɒʔnəm/[2]) is an area in the London Borough of Haringey, in north London, England.

To me /ˈtɒtnəm/ and /ˈtɒʔnəm/ seem the most usual, but the "e" is sometimes pronounced. And then there is Ossie's unique take. Jts1882 (talk) 07:48, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

@Jts1882: So you didn't read our discussion. /ˈtɒʔnəm/ is wrong because it is enclosed within phonemic slashes. /ʔ/ here is not a phoneme but an allophone of /t/, and /ˈtɒtnəm/ is already in the article. Mr KEBAB (talk) 14:59, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Tottenham". Oxford English Dictionary (Online ed.). Oxford University Press. (Subscription or participating institution membership required.)
  2. ^ How to pronounce place names with "ham" in them

Rewritng

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Just a note that I will be expanding the History section (partly from the History of Tottenham Hotspur F.C.) within a few days as the content here is too short. I will also trim the Stadium section since the amount there is a bit on the excessive side. I hope that it will be a more balanced article when finished. Those who feel like contributing to the rewriting as well are welcome. Also a note to anyone who has any good photo from the late 1980s to 1990s period of Spurs matches (featuring say Gascoigne, Lineker, Klinsmann, Ginola, Sheringham, etc.), and are willing to donate them to Wikimedia Commons (they need to be yours), please do so so we can use them to illustrate the History article or the section here. They will be much appreciated as there are very few images of the club from that period available for use in Wikipedia. Hzh (talk) 11:09, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 November 2017

Latest comment: 7 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

The link to the cockerel redirects to cock-fighting. it should link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooster 70.68.229.188 (talk) 10:49, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

I assume the link to cock-fighting is because the Spurs cockerel has fighting spurs. This alludes to the supposed interest of Harry Hotspur in fighting cocks, which is mentioned in the article, although the linked article doesn't really provide any insight relevant. A link to a specific section on the fighting spurs could be relevant but that information is dispersed throughout the article. I'm not sure the rooster article is any more helpful, unless people really don't know what a cockerel is. If a link is absolutely necessary, then I'm leaning slightly towards making the change, but I'll wait to see if anyone feels strongly one way or the other.   Jts1882 | talk  11:17, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
If you jump down to Crest part of the article this explains the importance of the cockerel as Tottenham's symbol and why it's linked that way. Govvy (talk) 11:53, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion
ArsenalFanTV (talk) 15:24, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

|- class="vcard agent" | style="text-align: center" | 7 | style="text-align: center" | FW | style="padding-right:15px;" |   PRK | style="padding-right:15px;" | Son Heung-min

Not going to be done. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 15:37, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Tottenham music song articles

Latest comment: 6 years ago8 comments2 people in discussion

I was wondering if Hot Shot Tottenham!, Nice One Cyril Ossie's Dream (Spurs Are on Their Way to Wembley), Tottenham, Tottenham and When the Year Ends in One should be combined into one article. Thoughts people? Govvy (talk) 20:39, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

I think not. Individual songs generally have their own article, only covers or variations of a song would be put into a single article. However, it might be possible to have an article that lists all the songs related to Tottenham Hotspur, there are others that aren't given here, for example The Victory Song by Chas and Dave. There is for example an article on List of England football team songs, although I'm not sure if there is one for a specific club yet. Hzh (talk) 22:14, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Would it be enough for a list article? Govvy (talk) 22:37, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Off the top of my head I can think of 8 songs, here 27 songs are given - [1], although not all of them can be considered Spurs song, but you might have around 15 valid ones. Obviously there are more if you include songs performed by individual Spurs' players, for example Diamond Lights by Hoddle and Waddle. There are also other songs that are somehow related to Spurs, for example Barry Manilow's Can't Smile Without You. Hzh (talk) 22:51, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
Might be enough for a list then, would they all pass GNG? Govvy (talk) 22:56, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
There are many lists that have fewer entries, but of course, it depends on whether people other think that it is notable enough to stand on its own. I'll probably need to think about it a little. Hzh (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
I think it's marginal. There are sources that discuss the list of Spurs songs that might satisfy the criteria per WP:LISTN, others might quibble at the sources. This might be the first of such list for a football club if created (are there others?), so it may draw attention from other editors. I don't mind creating this article, although probably not just yet. Hzh (talk) 11:53, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
Just adding a note that in addition to this, there are other articles on the club that may need to be created, for example on its fandom and training facilities (Cheshunt, Spurs Lodge in Chigwell, and the current training centre in Enfield), as well as organisations such as Tottenham Hotspur Foundation. Anyone who has the time to do it, please feel free to do so. I will probably add a section on its facilities here in the future. Hzh (talk) 11:07, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

Latest comment: 6 years ago68 comments4 people in discussion
GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C./GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 19:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


I'll take this one, will post review in the next day or so. Kosack (talk) 19:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the review, I'll try and see if I can fix some of these, but it may take a few days. Hzh (talk) 21:41, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
Just a note that if you use the COPYVIO detector and it flags up possible violations, it is more likely that the website copied from this article since the matching sentences existed for a few years on the Wikipedia article before the article on that website was written. Hzh (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the note, I did notice the copyvio tool but I don't think there were any serious concerns. The crossover potential for football articles is high so there's some leeway there. I'll get round to having another read through this as soon as possible following Govvy's request. Kosack (talk) 18:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Initial review:

Lead

  • Add England after London for the club's location.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "The club's home for the 2017–18 season is Wembley Stadium", this will need updating as I understand they will be remaining there into the 2018–19 season which we are one day away from entering. I'd say to add ground after home as well.
  Done, but will need to be updated and adjusted again soon. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "becoming the first British club to win two different major European trophies", I can't find this in the main body which would make this claim unsourced.
  Fixed. Added source to the main body of text and adjusted. Hzh (talk) 01:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "They have collected at least one major trophy in each of the six decades from the 1950s to 2000s – an achievement only matched by Manchester United", same again, if it's not sourced in the body it needs a source here.

Formation and early years

  • "Ripsher helped and supported the boys through the club's formative years, reorganised and found premises for the club", what did he reorganise?
It is mentioned in a few sources (including the official site - [2]), but they don't specify what it was exactly that he reorganised. We do know however that he gave the club a proper organisation, arranged the first proper meeting, found the club a few headquarters, sorted out the finance, team colours, playing ground, fixture list, etc. Perhaps the sources may simply mean that he turned the club into a proper organisation from what was previously a poorly-organised club started by the boys. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I would say to add the result and opponent for their first competitive victory to add some more context.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 01:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Early decades in Football League

  • The heading needs the placed before Football League.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "and won immediate promotion to the First Division", I'd change immediate to something along the lines of "won promotion to the First Division in their first season" to provide a more adequate timeframe.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  Done Second link removed. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "of the 1919–20 season", should that be in the 1919-20 season?
I'm inclined to keep the wording, since "in the 1919-20 season" may be ambiguous and can be read in two ways - they were Division Two champion that season or they played in Division One. Someone else may reword the sentence if they prefer it written another way. Hzh (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • If you're not using the actual name of the league, then league doesn't need the capital letter.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 01:15, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "Second Division in 1949–50 season", the missing from the end of this sentence.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • In this section you use both Division Two and Second Division on several occasions, try to stick to one name to avoid confusion.
  Done. Changed to Second Division. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • League Championship, again this isn't the name of an actual tournament so doesn't need capital letters.
  Done.Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "finished top of the First Division of 1950–51 season", sentence needs rewording.
  • "Rowe resigned in April 1955 due to a stress-induced illness from managing the club", source?
  Done. Sources added. Hzh (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Bill Nicholson and the Glory Years

  • Glory years doesn't need capitals in the heading.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Burkinshaw to Venables

  • First half of the first paragraph is unsourced.
  Done.Hzh (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Early grounds

  • Would the information on the club's first match be better suited to the history section rather than the ground?
  Done. Hzh (talk) 23:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Link Arsenal and unlink Woolwich Arsenal further down.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Link Northumberland Park and Manchester United in the image caption.
Partly done. There is no appropriate link for Northumberland Park as no article has been created for the football ground and other existing articles for Northumberland Park such as Northumberland Park, London are not exact. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

White Hart Lane

  • Link Notts County in the image caption and first paragraph.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Use Queens Park Rangers instead QPR, uninitiated readers would be unfamiliar with shortened names.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • If North Stand and South Stand are the actual name of the stands, they need capital letters in the third paragraph.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • The source for the jumbotron doesn't say it was the first or that it was made by Sony.
  Done Source added. Hzh (talk) 10:51, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Bit of repetition in the fourth paragraph, using White Hart Lane twice in two sentences, second use could simply be changed to "the ground" or similar.
  Done. Three mentions of White Hart Lane removed in the paragraph. Hzh (talk) 10:51, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Crest

  • Second and third paragraphs are unsourced.
  Done. Source added. Hzh (talk) 11:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Kit

  • Last sentence of the first paragraph is unsourced.
  Done. Source added. Hzh (talk) 23:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • "two weeks later the third kit was revealed via the promotion of Electronic Arts' FIFA 13 video game", unsourced.
  Fixed. Source added and text adjusted. Hzh (talk) 23:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Earlier years in the table need sourcing.

Ownership

  • Both Venables and Sugar linked earlier in the article.
  Done. Both unlinked.Hzh (talk) 01:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Support

  • north London > North London.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Social responsibility

  • There's a citation tag that needs dealing with.
  Fixed. The sentence has been adjusted with source. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Honours

  • Is there a source that can be included rather than telling the reader to check somewhere else?
  Done I've restored back to how it was originally done with the main source in the header. Don't know why it was changed, Govvy (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Are friendly competitions actually honours as friendlies are in nature uncompetitive. I'm sure there was a discussion about this recently?
Tottenham Honours have other honours listed on their page and there was never a discussion about removing these honours from club articles, just player articles for some reason. If Tottenham have listed other honours I see no reason why they can't be listed on Wikipedia to reflect the source. Govvy (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
@Govvy: It may be a reference to the peer review where someone mentioned trimming the Honours section. I have no opinion one way or another, so I didn't change that section, but others may prefer it trimmed. Hzh (talk) 09:59, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, the discussion linked there at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 103#Should we have duplicate records lists for clubs? certainly seems to favour moving smaller honours to the records page at the very least. Kosack (talk) 12:55, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Statistics and records

  • Unlink Second Division, already linked previously.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Link Intertoto Cup.
  Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Club management and support staff

Player of the year

  • List is unsourced.
  Done Iggy (Swan) 13:02, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

References

  • An awful lot of the references included don't have access dates.
  • What makes Hotspur HQ (at fansided) a reliable source? Is it user generated content?
  • For sources from the official website, you use four different publisher names, Tottenham Hotspur, Tottenham Hotspurs, Tottenham Hotspur F.C. and Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. Stick to one name for consistency.
  • Ref 51 lists The Observer as a publisher but it seems to be part of The Guardian rather than a stand alone company unless I'm mistaken?
  • Don't use all capitals even if the ref does, per WP:ALLCAPS. Refs 60, 120, 126, 155, 158, 159, 160, 161 and 162 are all affected.
  • Ref 100 has no publisher.
  • Ref 102 is just a link.
  • Use the full name for Rsssf in refs 132, 134, 136 and 139, Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation
  Done Iggy (Swan) 13:02, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

That's all I've found for now, placed on hold. Kosack (talk) 14:09, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Comments

I have fixed the last three sections of the review, the first point on the References section I have filled them in with today's date for completeness, and found that some of the references did not have the typical 'Cite' template' with them which may be a bit of a mess. I think I have worked well on all of the points there, as well as sourcing the Player of the Year awards. Iggy (Swan) 14:28, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Citations from Spurs should be written as |publisher=Tottenham Hotspur Football Club ; so that the reader has absolute clarity that the citation is from the Football Club and not another source. Govvy (talk) 14:51, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
Clarified with the Football Club added to them. Thanks, Iggy (Swan) 20:55, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Follow up review

Lead

  • "They have collected at least one major trophy in each of the six decades from the 1950s to 2000s – an achievement only matched by Manchester United.", this claim still appears to be unsourced.

  Fixed Two sources were added by User:Iggy the Swan, Govvy (talk) 15:25, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Early decades in the Football League

  • "finished top of the First Division of 1950–51 season", sentence still needs rewording.
  Done I have had a go at rewording this sentence, hope it's okay. Govvy (talk) 15:23, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Tottenham Hotspur Stadium

  • Unlink Northumberland Development Project, linked in the previous paragraph.
  Done Govvy (talk) 13:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Crest

  • Unlink FA Cup, linked previously in the article.
  Done Govvy (talk) 13:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Kit suppliers and shirt sponsors

  • Sponsors and kit suppliers in the table prior to 2010 are unsourced.

Ownership

  • Unlink ENIC International Ltd, linked in the previous sentence.
  Done Govvy (talk) 13:09, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Honours

  • Based on the discussion I linked above, where I would say a consensus was reached regarding not listing non-competitive honours on the main article at the very least, the previous peer review which raised the same issue and reviewing similar FA class articles (Arsenal F.C., Chelsea F.C., Liverpool F.C., Manchester United F.C. plus a few more) and the first 20 or so GA class club articles, I think we should still be looking at removing friendly honours from the main club page.
  Done I moved the other honours to List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. records and statistics, I linked the list at top of the honours list, however the following section also links to the same article, this new issue might need sorting as to not overlink, Govvy (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Club management and support staff

  • Jose Perez is listed as the assistant head coach but the ref uses assistant manager.
  Fixed Have updated the citation and adjusted to match. Govvy (talk) 13:18, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

References

  • There are still some issues with consistency with the official site refs, Tottenham Hotspur Ltd (ref 6), Tottenham Hotspur F.C. (ref 45), Tottenham Hotspur (ref 52), Tottenham F.C. (ref 164). Also, some use the publisher field while others use the work field which produces italics.
  • Football club is repeated in refs 109, 122 and 142.
  • Ref 163 needs a publisher.
  Fixed I have go through all of those and fixed them. Govvy (talk) 13:35, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Most of the issues have been addressed, nice work. Just a couple of minor issues to look at, with the honours issue probably the biggest to look at. Kosack (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Last few issues

Kit

  • "This colour choice is thought to be in homage to Preston North End who had recently done The Double", the historical kits ref at the end of this paragraph doesn't appear to support this.
  Fixed Source added and text adjusted. Hzh (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Kit suppliers table is still mostly unsourced.
A table is easier to read I think, whether it is necessary or not however may be up for discussion. Personally I don't have any opinion on whether to keep it or not. The information on kit supplier is found in the historical kits ref (in each image the name of the kit supplier is given), and I've added that. Hzh (talk) 23:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
I've added some content to the section, and it just needs a bit more text and you can probably delete the table if you want to (and if no one else objects). Hzh (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
I'll marked this as   Fixed, although the table may be deleted if desired. Hzh (talk) 12:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

References

  • Ref 75 seems to have expired and doesn't seem to mention anything about the club badge.
  Fixed by Iggy the Swan I think. Hzh (talk) 12:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
@Hzh: - yes it was fixed by me, thanks. Iggy (Swan) 10:32, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

I've done some minor fixes here and there and I think that once the last three points above are addressed this one is ready for promotion. Kosack (talk) 20:02, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm now of the opinion that this article meets the required GA criteria. Nice work, promoting. Kosack (talk) 05:52, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Tottenham Website

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Note to editors; Tottenham have updated their website so a number of citations might need correcting/updating. Regards Govvy (talk) 13:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

First paragraph of the history section,

Latest comment: 6 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

I read this sentence through a couple of times "In April 1884, because mail for another club London Hotspur was misdirected to North London, the club was renamed Tottenham Hotspur Football Club to avoid any further confusion." And I am not quite sure about it, feels fragmented and thought it could do some some adjustment. Govvy (talk) 16:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps something like
In April 1884 mail for another club, London Hotspur, was misdirected to North London, leading the club to be renamed "Tottenham Hotspur Football Club" to avoid any future confusion between the two.
I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. Thoughts? --Philk84 (talk) 07:08, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
I think the name change should be stated first, e.g. In April 1884 the club was renamed "Tottenham Hotspur Football Club" to avoid confusion with another club, London Hotspur, whose post had been mistakenly delivered to North London.   Jts1882 | talk  08:21, 3 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks guys, I like what Jts1882 put so I changed it to that, cheers. Govvy (talk) 13:17, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Kit

Latest comment: 6 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

In the kit section, there is the following text:

However, the attempt by the Tottenham to expand the business side of the club failed

I'm referring to "the Tottenham" - should that be just "Tottenham", or is there something missing like "the Tottenham Board"? --Philk84 (talk) 11:45, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

It's an error, now fixed. If you see any grammatical error or typo in the article, feel free to correct them. Hzh (talk) 11:50, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
I would have corrected it, but I wasn't sure if the "the" was the problem, or if there was a missing word after "Tottenham". Cheers Hzh. --Philk84 (talk) 11:59, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Home Ground

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Isn't the home ground officially Wembley until after the Fulham game? The home ground registered with the PL was Wembley this past season and will be Wembley for the opening game of next season. Only after this game will the home ground registered with the PL league will be changed to the new stadium.   Jts1882 | talk  07:34, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the home ground should be Wembley for the first home game of the season, otherwise it would read strange when they play their home game there. It can be changed after that. Hzh (talk) 09:31, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
O, didn't notice this before, I changed it to the new stadium, playing one at Wembley doesn't really count as a Home stadium to me, Govvy (talk) 15:42, 29 July 2018 (UTC

Featured Article

This article is good , deserves to be a featured article . Can't anyone do anything ?

Probably needs a few adjustments first. There are a few things I thought needed mentioning in there but haven't got round to it. If anyone has any suggestion for improvement, then please do so before nominating it for a featured article. Hzh (talk)

Formation and early years

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I'm a little confused by this sentence: "The following year, on 27 April 1901, Spurs won the FA Cup by beating Sheffield United 3–1 (in a replay of the 1901 Cup final)". So the 1901 cup final was a replay of the 1901 cup final? (which makes no sense at all unless there were 2 different cup finals that year - and the link doesn't help) Or was the final replayed before a result was had? This could be improved by clarifying. Ka-ru (talk) 05:58, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

It was a replay of the final after the first game ended 2-2. I've reworded it and changed the link to the article on the final.   Jts1882 | talk  08:05, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. That is so much clearer. Ka-ru (talk) 08:19, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Nickname

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

I want to add yid/yiddet to nickname maybe we can make it a new section in the bio simchabi 21:19, 12 March 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Simchaboi (talk • contribs)

Please don't do it. Even if some fans call themselves yids, it is used in a derogatory sense by non-fans for the club. Don't add what might be considered derogatory in the infobox. The use is already described in some details in the article and why it is controversial, adding controversial usage in the infobox is objectionable. Hzh (talk) 21:36, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
This has been discussed before and Yid, Yid Army are not a nickname for the club, it's a nickname for the fans, there-for shouldn't be included in the infobox. Also Tottenham have also announced and want to disassociate from the use of such terms. It should never be added in this fashion and should be reverted straight away. Govvy (talk) 22:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Fans of rival clubs do use the Yids as the name for the club or team, and it's meant to be derogatory. Spurs fans may called themselves Yids, but they don't call the club the Yids. Hzh (talk) 22:11, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2019

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Fernando Llorente, our saviour. Tobyt23 (talk) 12:30, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. aboideautalk 12:35, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
Likely to be just a piece of exuberance following Llorente scoring the goal which put the team into the Champions League semi-final, and may just be deleted.LenF54 (talk) 17:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

1950–51 Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

If anyone is interested, I've added 1950-51 season. Still needs a lot of work know. Govvy (talk) 16:15, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2019

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Please change "Northumberland Development Project was signed 20 September 2011.[72]" to "Northumberland Development Project was on signed 20 September 2011.[72]" because of a grammatical error. Thank you! Kelveensidhu (talk) 09:30, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

  Done   Jts1882 | talk  09:34, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Josh Onomah

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Josh Onomah is not on loan at Fulham he signed a permanent deal in exchange for us signing Ryan sessegnon for 25 million Chrisq89 (talk) 17:52, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

  Fixed Govvy (talk) 17:53, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Joshuav77

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Oliver Skipp? Joshuaav17 (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

"TottenhamHotspur.com" listed at Redirects for discussion

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
 

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect TottenhamHotspur.com. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. The Banner talk 14:08, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

1949–50 Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Have added another season article if anyone is interested. Govvy (talk) 13:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

I might be able to help generate the data tables for these season articles (matches, squads). I have most seasons in a database so I could probably generate the required wikitext (assuming I can understand code I wrote years ago).   Jts1882 | talk  15:33, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2019

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Tottenham Hotspur have sacked their manager and appointed Aahil Hameed. This is amazing as they will win all matches and gain trophies as they go Suduhbakar1 (talk) 17:14, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hzh (talk • contribs) 19:06, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
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