Talk:Thermal management (electronics)

Untitled

I disagree with deleting this article. Where else will you put stuff on heatsinking and fan cooling of electronic equpt etc. If you can come up with an alternative page title, I'm willing to listen . Otherwise, please leave this page alone.--Light current 01:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

REmoved from page, pending rewriting and severe editing

I really do think this stuff doesn't belong here. Where it does belong is a matter of opinion. 8-(--Light current 02:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Size vs. heat

What one has to remember about heat is that electronics only get hot because they are never perfect conductors nor perfect insulators {though we can make nearer-perfect insulators than we can conductors}. A perfect conductor will never get hot, no matter how much current you put through it, because the voltage drop across it will be nil and power = voltage * current. Nor will a perfect insulator, because this time, the current through it will be nil.

CMOS is based around two transistors, a P-channel FET which goes conductive when the gate is driven low, and an N-channel FET which goes conductive when the gate is driven high. The P-FET is trying to pull the output high and the N-FET is trying to pull it low. Both the gates are joined together, and this is the input. This is a simple NOT gate.

For a NAND gate, where any input 0 will drive the output to a 1, we have several P-FETs in parallel trying to drive the output high, and so many N-FETs in series trying to drive the output low. Each P-FET gate joined to an N-FET gate is one input. When they are all high, all the N-FETs turn on allowing the output to go low; when any one is low, the chain of N-FETs is broken, one or more P-FETs turn on, and the output goes high. For a NOR gate, where any input 1 will drive the output to a 0, we put the Ns in parallel and the Ps in series. You can make AND gates from NAND+NOT, OR gates from NOR+NOT, and any other combination you like. In fact you really don't need both NAND and NOR, because you can make either one out of the other; but it turns out they're equally as easy to make as each other in CMOS {not like many other technologies}.

In an ideal world this would never dissipate any power, since the input cannot be high and low at the same time so only one of the transistors will ever be on. In practice what happens is that the gates act like capacitors which take a finite time to charge and discharge. They do not switch instantaneously from conductive to non-conductive. So one stops conducting while the other is starting to conduct, and for a brief instant while the inputs are changing state both transistors are conducting a little. It's not a dead short circuit of course, otherwise something would give way ..... hopefully a fuse.

Now every time something changes state, you get a little pulse of heat. Which is why fast processors need cooling. Additionally, to make sure that the logic gate output has changed state before the next clock pulse, you need to make the gate capacitances charge up quickly -- which means using a higher voltage than you could get away with at lower speeds. But 2x more volts means 2x more amps means 4x more watts.

Smaller transistors should have less gate capacitance, and so be capable of switching more quickly.

"Heat sink" to "Thermal management of electronic devices and systems" merge discussion

Against — perhaps Electronics needs weeding and an article named "Thermal management of electronic devices and systems" makes sense (maybe), but merging Heat sink here is "biting off your nose to spite your face"! See also: WP:NOSE. The heat sink article is about the objects: heat sinks; the same way we have the article Arrow and the article Hunting. A closer match is this article and Computer cooling, but that is not a merge suggestion on my part, just a note-worth observation. --Charles Gaudette 09:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Against — This article is about a specific heat management component called a Heatsink, but it is not as general as you suppose. The article about heatsinks does not deserve to be merged with a topic as general as this, because: 1.People that are new to computing technologies and hardware will have a difficult time distinguishing the relevant material from the irrelevant material 2.The students will have to spend less time looking up what they need. This also ties the heatsink page, to the other pages that cover other components in the computer hardware range. --12:46, 13 January 2007 (GMT)

Against — You might also consider that one definition of a 'heat sink' is simply a generic term for a thermodynamic cooling device. Typically it refers to a solid-to-fluid type of heat exchanger, where the term fluid means either liquid or gas. So by this definition the term 'heat sink' can apply to many things from a CPU cooler to an engine radiator. Also in a thermodynamic system, such as a heat engine, the heat sink is complementary to the heat source. Oddly enough I see no article for heat source, perhaps because it's more appropriate for the dictonary instead of the encyclopedia. Mikiemike 09:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Against — The term heat sink is widely used in science as a term for a simple hot to cold heat exchanger. Much of the current content of heat sink may, however, be more appropriate in thermal management of electronic devices and systems to remove the massive bias from the heat sink article. - Zephyris _Talk 22:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Against — The term heat sink, while perhaps most widely used in electronics, is a general term and is appropriate for describing many different types of heat exchangers in different applications. One could describe a geothermal loop (see geothermal heating) as a heat sink or the fins and extra mass of an air-cooled engine as the same. - Jwo7777777 13:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Heatsink#Use in electronics

Given the response here I have moved the merge template to the "Use in electronics" section, please discuss! - Zephyris _Talk 16:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Content is more specialised than page title

This article fails to discuss managing heat by not generating it in the first place. This can be acheived by controlling the clock rate (if appropriate), lowering operating voltage, and changing the fabrication parameters and techniques. I think that some modern computers have a variety of dynamic down-clocking and fallback clocking systems to avoid overheating. I don't know if it's better to rename or to expand the article. If I can find an appropriate clean-up tag that doesn't prescribe an action then I'll add it here. --ToobMug 09:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Disappointed that an anonymous person merged the "Heat sink" article into this namespace

Whoever did this merge on 14 September 2007 should log-in and be accountable. This is not right. Heat sink is a topic that stands on its own. --Charles Gaudette 08:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Convective/forced air cooling

Convective air cooling and forced air cooling do not appear to be accurate. From what I can tell, convective air cooling refers to the natural convective cooling of a device. The heading should read "Natural convection cooling", and the language edited to clarify it. Forced air cooling does not sound remotely accurate. It sounds more like a ventilation practice than forced convection. Tjcognata (talk) 01:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

These gaps are normally filled with air which is a very poor conductor

A Thermal Interface Material or Mastic (aka TIM) is used to fill the gaps between thermal transfer surfaces, such as between microprocessors and heatsinks, in order to increase thermal transfer efficiency. These gaps are normally filled with air which is a very poor conductor.[citation needed]

I'm want to flag gaps filled with air. I don't know about you, but every gap between a processor and heatsink I have seen has some form of thermal paste; not air. This isn't only found in custom built PC's and I would consider it industry standard. Someone might want to verify this and apply wiki standards on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.238.51.159 (talk) 14:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Sponsor?

The first picture: "courtesy of NCI." Is this an encyclopedia or a sponsored news article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.85.168.103 (talk) 09:04, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Change title name

Compared to other Wikipedia pages, the title of this one is unusually long. Couldn't this more simply be titled "Thermal Management"? Then, of course, clarify what thermal management means and that this article is about thermal management of electronic devices and systems. Apspowerengineer (talk) 18:46, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree it's long, but Thermal management already exists as a disambiguation page for all topics about thermal management of things. And as it's not the only page on thermal management, I guess it shouldn't be moved there. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 25 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Thermal management (electronics), which everyone seemed to be OK with. Jenks24 (talk) 06:58, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

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Thermal management of electronic devices and systems → Thermal Management – Compared to other Wikipedia pages, the title of this one is unusually long. Couldn't this more simply be titled "Thermal Management"? Then, of course, clarify what thermal management means and that this article is about thermal management of electronic devices and systems. There is another article titled "Thermal Management of High-power LEDs" but that should really be included as a section in this overall article on the topic, not a standalone article, because LEDs are electronic devices. The other article titled "Thermal Management of Spacecraft" is a redirect since "Thermal control" is more accurate for that topic. Apspowerengineer (talk) 19:16, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

• Strong oppose thermal management is a disambiguation page, and the capitalized form should redirect there. Thermal management exists in more areas than just electronics. (for instance aerospace, where thermal failure modes of jet engines is a key concern, and hypersonic friction for missiles and space vehicles) or thermal management of thermal power generation systems like nuclear power plant cooling systems. -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 06:55, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose Per my comments above, and the Ip's comments. Many users for Thermal management, and so the disambiguation page is necessary. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:26, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose I could support a trim to Thermal management of electronics or even Thermal management (electronics) (my favourite), but we need some disambiguation to remain. Andy Dingley (talk) 07:47, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose Thermal management should be a dab because it applies to many non-electronic things. I agree with Andy Dingley that Thermal management (electronics) would be a good alternative. As for high-power LEDs, a separate article is warranted because they must be allowed to transmit light while being cooled -- a unique requirement that sets them apart from other electronic hardware. Lambtron (talk) 14:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. I would be happy with Thermal management (electronics).Constant314 (talk) 15:13, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Probably just a pile-on now, but oppose for the reasons already stated. This article is explicitly about electronics and thermal management as a general topic is much broader than that. Management and reuse of waste heat is an important issue in refineries for instance. I agree, though, that the current title could sensibly be shortened. SpinningSpark 15:17, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Comment I would also be happy with Thermal management (electronics). Joseph2302 (talk) 18:22, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. I would also be happy with Thermal management (electronics). In fact, so could by like the Spacecraft thermal control and rename to Electronics thermal control. This is too long. – Baldusi (talk) 18:31, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Please correct units

In section "Methodologies", subsection "Construction and materials", second paragraph the heat conductivities of boron arsenide and boron phosphide are specified in "W/mK", which would read "Watts per Millikelvin". This is wrong and should be replaced by "W/(m*K)", the unit used in case of copper and silver earlier in the same paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tadaa3x (talk • contribs) 15 November 2018 (UTC)

 Done The previous notation wasn't exactly wrong, but it was definitely confusing and your proposal clears that up. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:50, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Most EVs have thermal management, not "some"

Most electric cars have thermal management systems for their batteries, not just "some." That is why Nissan has much higher battery degradation than the competition: they have chosen to go against the industry norm. Please edit this to reflect the reality of the issue. We could also link to the Leaf issues. B5429671 (talk) 08:37, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Bad redirect

Heat dissipation does not apply to electronics alone. See also Talk:Heat dissipation Peter Horn User talk 22:05, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

link to

Overheating (electricity) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:14BA:9C36:5100:0:0:0:97B (talk) 00:58, 6 December 2021 (UTC)