Talk:Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) Regulations 2021

Red List under Latest Regs (Post 4 October)

Given that we now have countries having been on the list, a brief period without and counties and (from today) a reintroduction of counties on the red list would it take sense for this to be presented in a table similar to the one of the previous traffic light system?

I'm thinking 4 columns being "Not on the Red List", "Red List", "Hotel Quarantine" and "Flights Banned" with the dates in each given for each country which is on the red list at some point following 4 October

Want to get consensus here first

Thanks Tracland (talk) 08:08, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Would strongly suggest waiting at least a few weeks to see how things pan out first. I must have spent over 100 hours tracking the English regulations so far, and I can say that the previous dated table we had including 'flights banned' turned out to be almost impossible to update. It sounds straightforward, but the complexity of the rules, with layer added to layer added to layer, constantly changing fundamental definitions, and the need to have multiple regs open at once to follow all the cross-references make it extremely problematic. It might well be best to carry on as we are for now and consider a possible restructure once the article has become solely an historical record. MichaelMaggs (talk) 13:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

You do all the heavy lifting on this one so will leave to your discretion. If I get bored I might sandbox something off page (or in this talk page) just to see how complicated it is going to get and can then make a call once we have more of an idea how things will move.Tracland (talk) 13:24, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

TEMPLATE TABLE TO DATE

I proposed we keep the text as it is (but remove the current * with a list of countries) as I think the context of each change is useful to the article and at the end of the section inlcude the following table

Let me know your thoughts Tracland (talk) 07:03, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

The table below incorporates amendments to the regulations from 4 October 2021, with rows highlighted in red indicating countries that are currently on the red list.

Countries and territories, from 4 October 2021

Country/territory [sortable]	Category 1 (Red list)	Category 2 (Not on red list)
Afghanistan	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Angola	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 28 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 28 November 2021
Argentina	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Bolivia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Botswana	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 26 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 26 November 2021
Brazil	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Burundi	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Cape Verde	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Chile	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Colombia	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Democratic Republic of Congo	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Costa Rica	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Cuba	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Dominican Republic	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Ecuador	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Eritrea	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Eswatini	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 26 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 26 November 2021
Ethiopia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
French Guiana	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Georgia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Guyana	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Haiti	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Indonesia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Lesotho	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 26 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 26 November 2021
Malawi	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 28 November 2021	11 October 2021 - 28 November 2021
Mayotte	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Mexico	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Mongolia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Montenegro	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Mozambique	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 28 November 2021	11 October 2021 - 28 November 2021
Myanmar	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Namibi	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 26 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 26 November 2021
Nepal	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Panama	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Paraguay	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Peru	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Philippines	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Réunion	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Rwanda	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Seychelles	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Sierra Leone	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Somalia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
South Africa	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 26 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 26 November 2021,
Sudan	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Suriname	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Tanzania	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Thailand	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Trinidad and Tobago	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Tunisia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Uganda	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Uruguay	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021	11 October 2021 -
Venezuela	4 October 2021 - 1 November 2021	1 November 2021 -
Zambia	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 28 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 28 November 2021
Zimbabwe	4 October 2021 - 11 October 2021, 26 November 2021 -	11 October 2021 - 26 November 2021

I think that would work, though I wasn't quite sure what you meant by "(but remove the current * with a list of countries)." Perhaps for ease of comprehension we should split the article more definitely into two separate top-level sections, pre and post 4 Oct (traffic light system and Red list only). Then we could have separate lists of countries as you suggest in the two sections. The complexity is that the Red list rules largely span both, as do the rules for Amber/non-eligible arrivals, but those could be in another top-level section with cross-references. MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:25, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposal was to remove the bit struck through from the section copied below, edit the wording with the additional bits in bold, then include a subtitle ("Table of Red List changes from 4 October 2021" with the table above

Red list, from 28 November

Following further concerns regarding the spread of the omicron variant in Southern Africa, Angola, Malawi, Mozambique and Zambia were added to the Red list on 28 November. As of 28 November 2021, ten countries are now were on the list, from all of which direct flights into England are banned :

* South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho, Eswatini, Angola, Malawi, Mozambique and Zambia.

Apologies for deleting the link to the table, I thought it was referring to the table that was originally in the post 4 October 2021 section. I think if we include the table above then we may need to be more specific as to which table we are talking about but otherwise no issues with the reinsertion of that link.Tracland (talk) 11:57, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

OK, no objections to that. We can then work on it from there. MichaelMaggs (talk) 13:19, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Latest Changes

Would it be more appropriate / clearer to include these within the "from 4 October 2021 section", i.e. for the "Non-red list arrivals" section to state

Non Red list arrivals

Non eligible travellers who have not been in a Red list country during the preceding 10 days still have to follow the pre-4 October 2021 Amber list arrival rules, which largely remain in force though no longer referenced as "Amber" 'subject to the following amendments

[Amendments as recently made further down the page re testing to be included]

Just an idea. (I agree the whole thing is starting to get rather complex) Thanks Tracland (talk) 07:54, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Probably, yes. When I get some time I'm planning to split the article up in to two entirely separate non-cross referenced parts so that the post 4 October rules can evolve without having to touch the older stuff. MichaelMaggs (talk) 08:55, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

I would offer to help but the run up to the end of the year is looking madly busy with work so unlikely to be able to assistTracland (talk) 13:44, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree this is a good ideaTracland (talk) 13:45, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to Remove Colour Coding on Old Table

I think we probably should remove the colour coding on the only (Pre October 2021) table as this is no longer reflective of a "current position" but as it stands the colours reflect the position at 4 October 2021, which in and of itself is an arbitrary date. Thoughts?Tracland (talk) 18:18, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. I wish there were a better way to show country timelines more visually over the whole Covid period, but I'm pretty sure that there's no really good way to do that with Wiki markup. Maybe when it's all over I'll think about producing a final historical timeline, even if it has to be as an image. MichaelMaggs (talk) 18:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC)