Talk:Swarcliffe

Gas and electricity

A look at this page might help.--andreasegde (talk) 08:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

CE Electric UK is the company responsible for delivering electricity to the area and Centrica distributes piped gas, but that is WP:OR. I can't find anything online to cite.--Harkey (talk) 08:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll have a look.--andreasegde (talk) 16:46, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I got this link by putting in a Swarcliffe postcode. It seems there are numerous suppliers to houses/businesses in the area, depending on use of both gas or electricity. 19 supply gas (including Sainsbury's Energy, believe it or not), and 21 supply electricity, including Lloyds TSB. Supermarkets and banks now supply electricity and gas? :))--andreasegde (talk) 19:37, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

They just retail the electricity and gas. The actual people who put it underground are the wholesalers. (It used to be much easier when it was YEB or the Gas Board.):-)--Harkey (talk) 19:45, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll look for the wholesalers, but it is proving difficult at the moment. Are they afraid of admitting they supply the stuff? Bring back the man in a brown coat and flat cap: "I've come to look at your meter, luv. Any chance of a cuppa?" :)--andreasegde (talk) 19:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I see the companies have been referenced.--andreasegde (talk) 17:31, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Fine. What's next. Nothing to do with utilities, but I seem to remember that Cock Beck was teeming with sticklebacks, Chippies Quarry was the best place in East Leeds for tadpoles, and there were owls in the plantations.--Harkey (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

The owls and the dawn chorus in the woods were supplanted by magpies, which don't take kindly to other bird life. I suppose they have trouble with the squirrels (Canadian, not red).--andreasegde (talk) 10:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

By the look of this, Cock Beck won't be supporting much life either. Good luck to Yorkshire Transformations.--Harkey (talk) 11:02, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

That was probably the exact point where King Penda got his come-uppance.--andreasegde (talk) 16:31, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

You mean he drank some!!!--Harkey (talk) 17:25, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Swarcliffe Children's Centre

Swarcliffe Children's Centre Early Years Centre,Langbar Road, Swarcliffe, Leeds LS14 5ER. Done.

Tykes Pre-School Playgroup, St Gregory's Y & A Centre, Stank Gardens. Done. --andreasegde (talk) 17:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

These should be put in, but where?--andreasegde (talk) 16:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Education?--Harkey (talk) 17:08, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Not being used to how things are done here, I would go with whatever.--andreasegde (talk) 19:29, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Swarcliffe Hall

I don't know if these should be included, but Swarcliffe Hall has the same name, as has the Belmont Grosvenor School - History of Swarcliffe Hall: "in 1839 Charlotte Bronte worked for a brief spell at Swarcliffe Hall as a governess". They are not in the same area, but they may be connected with Swarcliffe, if only by name. I have yet to find out what the name Swarcliffe actually means, and why it was so named.--andreasegde (talk) 21:21, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed that one, too. I can't find any connection, though.--Harkey (talk) 10:59, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

This is interesting, because it mentions "Swartclive" and "Swarclif".--andreasegde (talk) 18:07, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Tantalizing!! There seems to be a reference to 'black bank' and the whole area is underlain by coal seams, just below the surface, which outcrop regularly in this vicinity. One of the seams at Templenewsam pit was called the Swarcliffe seam. In the 1881 and 1891 censuses Seacroft village had lots of coal miners.--Harkey (talk) 16:15, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Uhhh, time to have a deeper look. Pun not intended. "Swartclive 1246 FF, Swarclif 1323 MinAcct, -clyf(f) 1456 Ipm, 1507 Rent, 'black bank', v. sweart, clif, cf. Swarcliffe v, 131 infra. "--andreasegde (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

FF is "feet of fines", Ipm is "inquisitions post mortem". I can't find any detailed online versions, just calendars or extracts.Sweart seems to have the same root as swarthy. The name has obviously been used in official documents since at least 1246, so enough for a couple of sentences on toponomy using the ref you already have. --Harkey (talk) 20:20, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

"Sweart" means black, according to the Dictionary of the Anglo-Saxon language.--andreasegde (talk) 02:41, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

One of the roads is Swarcliffe Bank. Does that relate to -or was it named after- a topographical feature, I wonder?--Harkey (talk) 08:49, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

"A mound, pile, or ridge of earth, raised above the surrounding level." Swarcliffe Drive drops down (as does Swarcliffe Avenue) to where they both meet in the south, and the small wood to the south-west of Swarcliffe Bank is a lot lower. Judging by the drop at the back of the houses on Swarcliffe Bank and the shape of the wood, it does make me wonder if it wasn't an open mine/quarry before they planted the trees. Purely conjecture, of course, for now? BTW, the big wood used have outcroppings of thin layers of small coal pieces. It probably still has them.

Another point: as the old Elmet Towers site is said to probably still have examples of medieval pottery workings, it makes me wonder if the small wood was used as well? Just an idea.--andreasegde (talk) 15:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Most of the local boreholes eventually strike a coal seam.Elmete Towers borehole. There were bell pits all over the area.--Harkey (talk) 15:28, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

(reset indent) I found the mention of Swarclif in the IPM here (page 275 of Henry VI). The area had belonged to John Darcy, Knight. (Was he related to Darcy Bruce Wilson??)--Harkey (talk) 10:19, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Geography

I wonder why this: "The Swarcliffe housing estate is situated between the Seacroft, Whinmoor and Manston estates, and is bordered by..." is in the Geography section?--andreasegde (talk) 17:39, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Just for a lay person's description of the location. --Harkey (talk) 20:23, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

It seems like it was taken from the lead and ended up in the Geography section.--andreasegde (talk) 09:31, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

The wording is possibly too specific for the overview of the article that the lead is supposed to be.--Harkey (talk) 09:43, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I changed the section a little, by putting the roads to the top, the underground in the middle, and the woods and the Cock Beck at the bottom.--andreasegde (talk) 16:38, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

To do

The information in the "Sports" section, "Grimes Dike" (different spellings in "Notes"), "Swarcliffe Children's Centre + ", and the new info in "Swarcliffe Hall" should be put in.--andreasegde (talk) 16:52, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

A section for Culture, media and sport. If the UK government can have one so can Swarcliffe.  :-) --Harkey (talk) 17:19, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

A fine idea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:29, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Swarcliffe owl plaque

Not really connected with the article, and thus in direct contravention of talk page rules, but...

Was looking at the fascinating Leeds Owl Trail website http://www.leedsowltrail.com/, and on the "Owl Detectives" page, about half way down, there's a pic of a Leeds coat of arms (with owls) which is thought to have been "created by artist John Mkenna R.A.B.S by the city architects department for a public building in Swarcliffe in Leeds." The Owl Trail folk think it might be on the community centre, and would love to know where it is now, if anywhere. Does it look familiar to anyone? If so, do let them know! PamD 18:47, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

That's a puzzler, because the community centre was a school before, and St Gregory's was a church. I was thinking that it could be at the fire station, but the building itself was built very cheaply. Maybe on the inside. It could also be on the inside of the rent office on Swarcliffe Avenue/Langbar Road.--andreasegde (talk) 13:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

I've just sent John McKenna an email. OR and all that.--andreasegde (talk) 13:35, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

It seems the community centre idea was right. "It was on a new community centre set in a gable end, but I cannot recall the exact address, almost 20 years ago. John".--andreasegde (talk) 09:08, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Got it. It's halfway up the small tower (on the south side) of what is now the Swarcliffe Children's Centre, behind The Staging Post public house. (Ref: Langbar Road Leeds LS14). A library is part of it, but I read that they closed that.--andreasegde (talk) 09:29, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

• Great, thanks. I've passed that info on to the Owl Trail people. PamD 08:30, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Swarcliffe/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Meetthefeebles (talk · contribs) 09:06, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll review...

Comments:

First impressions; well written article, especially the history section, no glaring typographical/spelling errors, coverage is fairly broad (especially for such a small area), lots of in-line citations. Some good illustrations and images (the article might benefit from one or two more, though, perhaps one of Harding (if one is available) or one of the churches?

Lead

• The lead needs some improvement I think but that might be best left until the below issues are addressed.

History

• Very interesting section, well written.
• Might be just me (I don't know Swarcliffe at all) but I think this section would benefit from a little context. As I have read it, it seems that Swarcliffe was essentially nothing save some trees, a lodge and a school replaced by a terrace and that it was part of first Seacroft and then Elmet? Then some houses were built on Templar Lane and a few other streets before a council estate was built which effectively created Swarcliffe estate, now Swarcliffe? Is that right? If so, perhaps a small explanatory note at the start, warning the reader that Swarcliffe itself is fairly new but its history is intrinsically linked with (now) neighbouring Seacroft might assist readers like me who have no background knowledge of the area?

Governance

• Looks good, would only suggest perhaps that some more specific election data be added to give a reader more info about voting trends: is the ward a Labour stronghold or a marginal seat (I suspect the former)? The % of votes achieved by the most recently elected councillor would do fine I think.

Geography

• The whole first paragraph is unreferenced.
• What is Swarcliffe? Is it a village, a settlement, an estate? I think it is a residential suburb of Leeds (from reading the article). If so, this should be stated here (and also in the first line of the lead).
• Some of the information in the lead should be in this section: distance and direction from Leeds, postcode area (not actually required but as it is here it might as well stay).
• Per WP:UKCITIES, the distance to London should be recorded.
• Also per WP:UKCITIES, comment on the topography should be made; is the land flat or hilly? The map in the infobox seems to indicate that there is a river/stream (the 'Cock Beck') very close to Swarcliffe. Some comment on this would be helpful too.

Demography This section is a little sparse by comparison to the rest of the article:

• The 'hard pressed' figure looks incorrect: is the correct figure not 6,163 (per p.2 of the source provided)? Additionally, whilst I know what 'hard pressed' means (I am from Gateshead, after all!), a blue-link somewhere might help (perhaps here?)
• That seems like a large proportion of the total resident population. Is Swarcliffe and area of deprivation per the Index of Multiple Deprivation?
• How many of the residents are male/female?
• Can information as to economic activity be provided? What are the unemployment figures for Swarcliffe? Is this higher or lower than the national average?
• WP:UKCITIES suggests that a comparison table be provided. An excellent example of this is provided at Cheadle Hulme.

Education

• A little more information about Swarcliffe Primary. I see from the references that there is a link to the OFSTED report: where is the school located, how does the school perform and how does OFSTED grade the school?
• The same would apply to Grimes Dyke School.
• This might sound odd, but in Gateshead we don't have either infant or junior schools(!) Perhaps consider a blue-link for these to help us ignorant Geordie souls?

Churches This section looks fine

Shops and Public Houses

• My first comment would be that there is no economy section in the article and I would suggest that this section be renamed economy (again per WP:UKCITIES).
• I am guessing that there is no major employer in Swarcliffe? If so, this should be noted. Do the shops provide employment to residents or do residents travel to Leeds (or elsewhere) for work?
• There is a clarification tag in this section which needs to be addressed.

Transport and Infrastructure Generally, this section looks good. Just one comment.

• The information on nearest roads in the Geography section might be better here?

Media This section is fine as is.

Inhabitants

• Might this section be better titled Notable Residents? The difficulty is caused by the last sentence, which doesn't sit well with such a title (and I am not sure where else the sentence could go!)

Crime This section looks good.

References

• Is Ref 4 a reliable source?
• Ref 5 appears to be dead
• Ref 7; is GENUKI a reliable source? I am pretty sure it is not considered so for WP:FAC but for WP:GAN I'm not sure. Same applies to Ref 82
• Ref 10 looks dead
• Ref 11 takes me just to the 'Old Maps' site. Can the actual OS Maps be cited instead?
• Is Ref 16 reliable?
• Ref 19 looks dead
• Ref 21: who is Nigel Marshall? Is his website a reliable source?
• Typographical error is Ref 23
• Are ref 34 – 5 reliable?
• Link 72 doesn't appear to work for me
• Refs 106 – 108 would benefit from an author/publisher (in case the links die)

There is a little bit of work to be done here, but overall this article is close to WP:GA status so I'll place the article on hold pending a response to the above. I have added this page to my watchlist to keep an eye out for any response or queries.Meetthefeebles (talk) 10:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Six days in and no-one seems to be responding to the review. I'll give it one more day then I'll simply review the article as is... Meetthefeebles (talk) 14:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

• Okay, a week after these comments were offered there has been no response at all, so I will simply review that which is here:

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   • Lead requires some work

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   • Several sources are of questionable reliability

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   • Several areas for improvement; no economy section, demography section could be much more in-depth etc

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I'd reiterate that this article is close to WP:GA status and would suggest it be renominated if someone is willing to consider the issues I raised previously. But for now, it falls just short. Meetthefeebles (talk) 08:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

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