Talk:South African Airways/Archive 1

Service in Afrikaans at SAA

Does SAA have Afrikaans-speaking flight attendants to serve Afrikaanse speakers ? Are announcements given in both Afrikaans and English, or in English only ? 161.24.19.82 18:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The primary language of the airline is English, but very often the South African crew can speak Afrikaans as well. Announcements are generally in English. -- Chris Lester ^talk 20:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

To my experience, the "standard" announcements (flight security, welcome and so on) are usually made in English and in the language of the destination country. The goodbye announcement is usually also announced in some other South African languages (Xhosa, Afrikaans), if I remember correctly. --80.139.178.28 12:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Based on the same logic, all announcements on SAA flights to, let's say, Cape Town should be made both in English and Afrikaans considering that over 50 % of the population of the Western Cape speak Afrikaans as first language. 187.34.70.100 (talk) 01:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I recently (April 2011) flew to CT and if you spoke to them in Afrikaans they respond in English (there were no white crew members on my plane, no racism intended there, just fact), and I didn't hear any Afrikaans from crew members/pilot/announcments. HOWEVER, on the safety sheets in front of your chair the annotations are also in Afrikaans (as well as German, Russian/Chinese etc.), however safety videos/announcements are ONLY in English. I also flew back from Joburg and same thing except this time I also heard the crew members speak to each other in their native tongue (give it Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana etc.). Bezuidenhout (talk) 19:23, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Alliance

I have removed the link to Alliance as part of a disambiguity repair sweep. Ultimately, if this link needs to be here, it should point to an article on Alliance, the airline, not the disambiguation page. Anjin^talk 21:32, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Longest Nonstop Flight?

I have heard that South African Airways' nonstop flight from Johannesburg to New York JFK is the currently longest nonstop flight in the world. Can anyone confirm? Quacks Like a Duck 20:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The flight is not non-stop; it operates via Dakar. Therefore that claim is false. A while back (2000), the longest flight in the world was operated Atlanta - Johannesburg direct by SAA, but that has been discontinued. -- Chris Lester ^talk 11:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

As recently as August 2002 their JFK-Johannesburg flight was non-stop. - Walkiped ^{(T | C)} 04:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe Johannesbueg-JFK flies via Dakar and JFK-Johannesburg is non-stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.187.118.229 (talk) 18:25, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Direct JNB to JFK and return been operating for at least 2 years — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.186.97 (talk) 14:52, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Washroom Amenities

I was just on a website that had a picture of the first-class washroom amenities on SAA, and I noticed a bottle labeled "shower mist". Does this mean the plane has showers? Naj 16:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope...no showers. -- Chris Lester ^talk 19:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Incidents: more information needed

This page is generally well written and non partisan, however I feel more information is needed on "incidents".

The first was the "Gemsbok", a Vickers Viscount that went down off the Transkei coast (ca. late '50's, early '60's). The second was a Boeing 707 that crashed shortly after taking off from Windhoek airport en-route to New York (1967?). The cause was determined to be due to the pilot retracting the extendable flaps too soon after take off. The accident led to major revision in take off procedures of all airlines. I also remember a TV documentary on SAA where it came out that an attempted hijacking of a B 727 some time in the '70's occurred. The hijacker wanted to fly to Maputo, however the flight crew pursuaded him that there was not enough fuel and landed safely in Jhb. (Don't know what happened to the hijacker). 82.205.219.195 14:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Pic of Ndizani

Anyone got a picture of the Ndizani plane to upload? I remember seeing it before and after the Olympics; should defintly be up there with the other (less colourful!) planes. Shado.za 10:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Is SAA really profitable

In recent years, SAA has been known to be very unprofitable, only carrying on due to government handouts. Thus the claim is that SAA is Africa's most profitable airline is, in all likelihood false. If you want evidence look here Pure_Oxygen

Kenya Airways is the most profitable African Airline [1]. --Ezeu 04:32, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Afrikaans

If you didn't notice almost everybody speaks English in South Africa. But most people speak Afrikaans as a first language. (Especially by the white and coloured population.)Then why does South African Airways only have a website in English and one in German. They do not consider thinking about the wide Vareity of cultures and languages in Republiek van Suid-Afrika. I am here to Commemorate a small section of this page to Afrikaans, South Africa, and to Afrikaaners.(and I didn't want to make a whole new Wikipedia account for Afrikaans.) Hallo. Hoe gaan dit? Wat is jou naam? My naam is Brian. Ek kan nie goed Afrikaans praat nie. Praat jy Engels[2]? Praat jy like Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens[3]?Baai. Hello. How are you? what is your name? My name is Brian. I can't speak Afrikaans well. Do you speak English? Do you like South African Airways. Bye. (I put the word like in the sentence "Praat jy like Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens[4]?" because i didn't know how to say like in Afrikaans.

(The above post by User:Bbudik1001 was transferred here from the main page)

Most South Africans speak isiZulu as a first language. It is also understood by half the country's citizens and large numbers of people all over the Eastern areas of Southern Africa . There should be an isiZulu version of their site.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 16:44, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

That is incorrect. Although isiZulu is the most widely spoken first language it is the mother tongue of much less than 50% of all South Africans. There is in fact no majority first language in SA at all. As far as second languages go there are unfortunately no official statistics but I'm fairly sure that English and Afrikaans are much more widely spoken as a second language than isiZulu. Anyway this topic has been very well discussed over at the South Africa page. Roger 10:38, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm afraid that you're simply mistaken. There is no language, second or otherwise, named "English and Afrikaans." As separate languages, I'm quite sure that there are more second language speakers/understanders of isiZulu in South Africa and beyond.

However, the point of the original comment was not about second languages, it was about native speakers. Here there is simply no contest.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 11:38, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not really interested in getting into an argument about it but you said "Most South Africans speak isiZulu as a first language." That is the statement I am disputing. When you use the word "most" like that, you are saying that an absolute majority speak isiZulu. Further I am saying that as second languages both English and Afrikaans are more widely spoken than isiZulu. notice my use of the plural form "English and Afrikaans are much more widely spoken" where the word "are" indicates plural. As I said before, this matter has been very thoroughly discussed on the South Africa talk page, so please let us just drop the topic here. Roger 18:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, by most I meant that it has the largest numbers of L1 speakers -- I guess it was a bad choice of words on my part.

"..there are unfortunately no official statistics but I'm fairly sure that English and Afrikaans are much more widely spoken as a second language than isiZulu." Notice the use of the singular and the indefinite article.

I'm also "fairly sure" that, when counted seperately, there are more second language speakers of isiZulu than there are of English or Afrikaans in South Africa.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 07:33, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Aircraft, number of

Can someone please clarify - there is is contradiction in terms of the number of planes. The table at the top gives a different number than the breakdown. -- Chris Lester ^talk 12:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is technical fleet info and current seating plans. Also, the "Key persons" field in the side bar is not correct; here is current information, but i'm am not sure of the best way of adding it, or how much of it should even be added. Annesville 09:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Also no mention of their "Museum Flight" fleet, which I believe are available for charter flights. AFAIK they have one Ju52 and one or more DC3 and/or DC4 aircraft. Roger 12:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Some of the aircraft are leased [5] Socrates2008 01:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Photo of Seat at Zurich Airport

Don't see the point of this anymore as the route that this seat was being advertised for is no longer in use. Socrates2008 09:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't see what the problem is. That seat is used in Business Class everywhere and not only on the Zurich route. That the photo was taken at Zurich airport is irrelevant as it does not change the fact that it is the SAA Business Class seat. Roger 09:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

So maybe the reference to Zurich needs to be removed from the caption if it's got nothing to do with the seat? Socrates2008 10:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

SAA Logo

The SAA logo on the page is old one. The new one looks slightly different plus it bears Star Alliance Member slogan. --Vopoce 11:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Accidents

As a child, I remember hearing about a SAA accident where air traffic controllers were watching a sporting event. More information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.104.225 (talk) 15:13, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

When were you a child? Roger (talk) 17:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The 1970s but my father told me the story so it may have occurred in the '60s. -- LongLiveHaasDas —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.104.225 (talk) 19:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

If it was in the 60's it is absolutely impossible. SA didn't have tv before the mid 70s and no airport control tower in SA overlooks a sport stadium. Such a story is in any case completely unbelievable - there is no way ATCs would be watching anything other than their radar screens or the planes outside the tower windows. Roger (talk) 12:59, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Was this the 1962 crash? Perhaps listening to a sporting event on the radio. The 1962 aircrash, the pilot was pressured into flying in very poor conditions to meet tight schedules. The airline then went on to blame the pilot and co-pilot when it was the pressure from the the airline that led to the accident. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.240.3.163 (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe that a broadcast radio would even be allowed in a control tower. Roger (talk) 21:36, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

747s withdrawn?

The text says 747s are no longer used but the table still lists one - which is correct? Roger (talk) 21:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, they are in the (very expensive) proses of switching over to Airbuses. They still have many of the boeings (like the 747), but are gradually replacing them. HeymannM (talk) 20:55, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Cargo and Museum fleets

SAA has 3 dedicated cargo aircraft, one 737-300 and two 737-200. These were converted to freighters when they were retired from passenger service. See [6] What is the current status of the SAA Historic Flight - including airworthy Ju52, DC3, DC4 and some others? Roger (talk) 11:50, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Fleet listing and Museum fleets

SAA has 3 dedicated cargo aircraft, one 737-300 and two 737-200. These were converted to freighters when they were retired from passenger service. See [7] What is the cu The SAA fleet info page seems to imply that the 747s have been retired. It also doesn't say anything about the replacement of A340-200s by A330-200s. Does anyone have a cite for that? - htonl (talk) 15:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I noticed another error and omission on this table:

727s are omitted but were in service after 1971.

A330-200s are listed as both retired and active. Could the "retired" listing be referring to the A340-200s? According to the current fleet listing there is still one in service, though. Seftelcm (talk) 15:37, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

737-800s were recently retired or transferred to Mango Airlines, but are not listed in the Fleet History. Sorry, I have no citations but whoever removed them from the current fleet list must know. Seftelcm (talk) 15:20, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

External links

I recently cleaned up this articles external links section in accordance with our guideline and there were a few reliable sources which didn't belong in the section but would be useful for article development purposes so I'm list them below if anybody would like to use them for citations.

• Springbokradio SA Airways Soundfiles (Multimedia)
• Airbus.com Orders
• South African Historic Flight - SAA historic planes
• A Firm Resolve: A History of SAA Accidents 1934–1987; Young, Mark D
• Museum dedicated to South African Airways and civil aviation in South Africa. The Museum has several ex SAA classic piston engine airliners, Douglas DC-3 and Douglas DC-4, that still ply their trade to the tourism industry in Southern Africa

--HiltonLange (talk) 00:02, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Fleet section

The section is quite messy. The past fleet table is far from complete. It only lists types operated from the late 1960s but this airline has existed since 1934. Some recent fleet changes are described in prose but there is no consistency. Oh and there is a severe shortage of cites. Roger (talk) 19:35, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

codeshare with ELAL

i'm pretty sure that the code share with ELAL was not extended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.230.88.219 (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Picture caption mystifying

I don't understand the picture caption at South African Airways#Restructuring and Star Alliance: 2006–present - "The Airbus A319 just few of the newer aircraft bought by SAA". Can anyone clarify? Tony Holkham (talk) 19:30, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Picture gallery

I don't think we need a picture gallery here. Commons is the place for stuff like that. --John (talk) 21:24, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Agree MilborneOne (talk) 21:37, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on South African Airways. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130523235538/http://www.ekurhuleni.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,428/ to http://www.ekurhuleni.com/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,428/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:46, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on South African Airways. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110725101308/http://www.flysaa.com/Utility_Navigation/Policies_And_Disclaimer/policies_and_disclaimer.html to http://www.flysaa.com/Utility_Navigation/Policies_And_Disclaimer/policies_and_disclaimer.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 21:45, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Is still SAA still an airline or should we treat it as an airline of the past?

The page(s) on South African Airways at the time of writing these words describe SAA as being a current airline. With the planned layoff of all staff and the business rescue practitioner(s) stating that it was unlikely SAA could be saved, should wikipedia now mark SAA as a defunct airline ? Pmbma (talk) 23:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

As of 24 April, they are still running flights, so not yet. We'll cross that line when they actually cease all operations and liquidate, which may or may not be in a week or so. When in doubt, its always best to check their entry on the ch-aviation database. They're currently listed as "active" which means they are still current. When that changes to "out of business" then we'll know for certain that they are a thing of the past. Specter Koen (talk) 10:24, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Don't cite Planespotters

The Planespotters website is nowhere near a reliable source for fleet information. The fleet situation is currently in flux to such an extent that it is basically impossible to try to update on a day-to-day basis, a fleet table is not a sport scoreboard. Rather wait for certainty from official sources to be reported in mainstream media. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:07, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I have updated the current fleet today based on the official AOC as reported in this source:

"South African Airways resecures its AOC ahead of restart". ch-aviation. 4 August 2021. Retrieved 9 August 2021.

I hope this is acceptable. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:22, 9 August 2021 (UTC)