Talk:Somali Canadians

Please do not remove the changes of this page

The official number of Somalis on the right side of the page was mentioned and was posted first. The unofficial numbers were posted below it. Please do not remove that change. The unofficial number is to show that there are conflicting numbers in the Somali population in Canada. Nevertheless, the official number of Somalis was posted first and before the unofficial number. If you need other reliable sources of the unofficial number of Somalis in Canada, do not hesitate to ask me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.75.103 (talk) 12:06, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Figure

Who exactly are there less than 45,000 Somalis in Canada when according to the Immigrant and Refugee Housing Committee there are more than 80,000 Somalis in Toronto?[1] AcidSnow (talk) 18:21, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

The larger figure is probably for Somalia nationals, while the smaller 44,995 NHS figure is for ethnic Somalis [2]. Middayexpress (talk) 18:38, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

If that's true than more than 50% of the Bantus that live in Somalia have left. Though, the population is far less than 6%, let alone 15%. AcidSnow (talk) 18:45, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

80,000 is likely just an overestimation. The NHS indicates 4,315 Somalia-born emigrants as of 2011. Middayexpress (talk) 19:30, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Which? I haven't heard of Bantus coming to Canada. AcidSnow (talk) 19:41, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

See the NHS for the official 44,995 figure [3]. Middayexpress (talk) 19:54, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

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Why are well sourced statistics being deleted?

Statistics from Canada's national statistical agency, as well as national newspapers keep being deleted from this article.

The statistics are usually about somali-canadian employment, social assistance, or crime per capita. All three of these topics keep getting completely removed, often with the reason "neutralize".

I'm not aware of any wikipedia guidelines for deleting factual well-sourced data. I believe the following needs to be incorporated into this article.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/151015/dq151015b-eng.htm/ Statistics Canada Refugee Social Assistance

"Social assistance rates also varied by country of citizenship. Over the reference period, they were generally highest among refugee claimants from Afghanistan, Colombia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Eritrea and Somalia"

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/10/15/somalicanadian_murders_with_their_sons_dying_a_community_seeks_action_and_help.html

The unemployment rate for Somali-Canadians is above 20 per cent, the highest of any ethnic group. About 35 per cent of young people drop out of high school.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-so-many-somali-canadians-who-go-west-end-up-dead/article4365992/?page=all

Since 2005, dozens of young men from Canada’s Somali community have been killed, most of them casualties along a cocaine-dusted corridor between the housing projects of Toronto and the oil patch in Alberta. Most cases remain unsolved.

Steve348 (talk) 16:39, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Now on my watchlist.....will also keep an eye on this deletion.--Moxy (talk) 18:00, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Various policies apply, such as neutrality and due weight - proper sourcing is just a prerequisite. Anyway, no official figures were linked to, and the one's above are either outdated or inaccurate. According to Statistics Canada, those social assistance rates pertain to asylum claimants in the period between 1999-2010 (who numbered less than 5,000; the highest rate was also actually for Hungarian residents) rather than to all Somali denizens [4]. As to ethnicity-based crime rates, law enforcement is prohibited from collecting them, so they cannot be quantified at the population level [5]. However, the official graduation rate of Somalis has apparently risen over the years, and is now close to the average (80% // 83% [6]). The unemployment rate is though around 20%, as populations from the Arab world are generally underemployed according to the Canadian Arab Institute [7].Soupforone (talk) 14:59, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia's polcies clearly state "Neutral Point of View says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a verifiable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each." The figures above were neither outdated not were they inaccurate, and I'm not sure how you can to this conclusion.

The OFFICIAL statistics Canada article was released October, 2015, making it the most recent thing on the entire page, I will be adding this back to the page shortly.

Journalists from established and respected newspapers are valid and reasonable sources for discussing trends in social groups, the Toronto Star article is 100% allowed and encouraged by Wikipedia, and I'll be re-adding it to the article.

The report you linked on the "Toronto District School Boards Student Group Overviews" is very a very good source that should be incorporated into the article, although the entire poppulation of Somali speaking students in the GTA is only 5,000).

The Somali people are not Arab, I'm not sure why you're making the claim that they should be grouped with Canadian Arabs? The Somali ethnicity came from Levant (Not the Arabian peninsula). Please see the "Haplogroup T-M184" for more information. Steve348 (talk) 18:06, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

The 35% drop rate was actually culled from the tdsb (which is mentioned in the star url), but it's the old official figure [8]. The current official graduation rate is 80%, meaning that the drop out rate is now under 20% - this is close to the average g/r of 83% [9]. Also, the Canadian Arab Institute doesn't allude to peninsular Arab descent or haplogroups, nor did I. Anyway, I've pointed to the official figures. Soupforone (talk) 16:14, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

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