Talk:Sodium bisulfate

Decomposition

How can this chemical decompose into a compound containing sulfur if it itself contains no sulfur? I suppose it's possible for it to pick up sulfur from hydrogen sulfate in the air, but would it really be a decomposition if that's the case and not just a reaction? It's like saying that hydrogen can decompose above its flash point...into water vapor! ~ Oni Lukos _ct 13:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand your question, NaHSO₄ does contain sulphur. Can you specify your question? --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 14:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh...sorry, brainfart. My bad. That's kind of embarassing. ~ Oni Lukos _ct 22:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Sodium Bisulfate has 4 Oxygen molecules, NaH(SO₄) but the image has only 3, being HNa(SO₃).Dreamm 22:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I've commented out the image until we get a proper one. ~ Oni Lukos _ct 02:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Complex of sodium sulfate and sulfuric acid?

The article states "Sodium bisulfate behaves, to some degree, as if it were a complex of sodium sulfate with sulfuric acid. This is evident if either the anhydrous form or the monohydrate come in contact with ethanol, which causes them to separate into those two components.", and cites the Merck Index of Chemicals and Drugs, 9th ed. monograph 8330. However, I do not believe this to be accurate, i.e. mixing ethanol and sodium bisulfate will actually create sulfuric acid and sodium sulfate. I've read numerous reports of people attempting this (some based on the mention in this article, some on a similar mention on various MSDS). All state that when these two substances are mixed, nothing happens at all. Can someone please weigh in on this, and correct it if appropriate? 97.82.247.200 05:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

1) The reaction rate of the decomposition of sodium bisulfate with alcohol is dependent upon conditions -- temperature, how finely ground the bisulfate is, whether the bisulfate is anhydrous or monohydrate, how much water is present in the alcohol, and so on. You might have to wait some time before appreciable amounts of H₂SO₄ leach into the alcohol. 2) Even when the reaction does happen, you won't see significant physical change. Sodium sulfate is very insoluble in alcohol. So you will begin with white particles floating around in a clear solution and end with white particles in a clear solution. The only way you can discern if anything happened is to separate some of the alcohol solution from the white particles and test it for the presence of H₂SO₄, and then test the white particles for reduced acidity. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 16:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up, Karl. :) I think a condensed version of your explanation would improve the mention in the article. 97.82.247.200 01:10, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

This is sort of off topic, but- Would one be able to distill nitric acid from a mixture of sodium bisulfate and potassium nitrate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.52.234 (talk) 00:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Sodium bisulfate and KNO3 are both solids. The sulfuric acid method works mainly because H2SO4 is a liquid in its own right, and can therefore be the solvent for the reaction. However, water could be added as a solvent, and a lower-concentration nitric acid could be produced, if that's acceptable.

I don't know where to put this, but this crap about sodium bisulfate being "natural" makes no sense. Whether or not it's natural would depend on how it's obtained, and if it's produced by partial neutralization of sulfuric acid that generated via the contact process, well, it doesn't get much more synthetic than that. You might need to go to the rim of a volcano to find "natural" sodium bisulfate, but that's the price you have to pay if you don't want any "synthetic" chemicals in your food. Vir Novus (talk) 23:39, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

E-number confusion

It may be worth checking, but sodium bisulphite (Sodium hydrogen sulphite) is E222, not E514, which is sodium sulphate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.86.50.187 (talk) 08:05, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

But sulphite and sulfate are different chemicals. Sulfate vs bisulfate is interconvertable by changing pH. E_number provides cited entry for E514 being sodium sulfate or sulfates, and google confirms that subparts "i" and "ii" refer to the "bi" difference. DMacks (talk) 09:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

new

this http://worldaccount.basf.com/wa/NAFTA/Catalog/ChemicalsNAFTA/doc4/BASF/PRD/30042379/.pdf?title=&asset_type=ti/pdf&language=EN&urn=urn:documentum:eCommerce_sol_EU:09007bb28004767b.pdf has a lot of good technical info however, I couldn't find the stability of NaBisulfite in water as a function of pH I would like to know the stability at room temp at a pH of 8 - 9, using buffes such as Tris, Tricine, etc Is there a simple color test I could use ? (i think stability and assay protocol fall within the realm of wikipedia) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.195.10.169 (talk) 17:48, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

plagerism?

This website is an identical intro to this subject: http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/resource/rws00056397/sodium-bisulfate — Preceding unsigned comment added by Niapet (talk • contribs) 00:44, 12 December 2014‎ (UTC)

That part of their page is a wrapper around our content. DMacks (talk) 09:46, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Production

Quote: "There are only two producers in the USA, one being Jones-Hamilton Co., who uses the sulfuric acid/sodium chloride process, which produces the anhydrous form. The other supplier, Jost Chemical, uses the sodium hydroxide/sulfuric acid method, which produces the monohydrate."

I find this a bit US-centric - the USA is not the only country on the planet yet I do find a lot of wikipedia entries are written with a very US-centric slant.

China produces more chemicals than the US why not talk of who produces this reagent in China or somewhere in Europe? I find it irrelevent how much is produced in the US - why this one solitary geo-comment predictably about the US.

I would like to see more effort on wikipedia to educate folks about global context so we see fewer US-centric postings.

185.89.72.227 (talk) 12:52, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Please then write us a sourced statement about Chinese production. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:42, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

I imagine that the German-language page is Europe-centric, and the Chinese-language page is China-centric. If you can read either of those languages, those pages might be a start. Vir Novus (talk) 23:28, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Decomposition (again)

In the solubility section it says "decomposed by alcohol". What would alcohols decompose sodium bisulfate to? Sodium bisulfate is an inert and stable compound. Gardenofavery (talk) 15:54, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Presumably sodium sulfate and sulfuric acid. 2NaHSO₄ → H₂SO₄ + Na₂SO₄ What may actually happen is solution of the bisulfate, and then recrystallisation of the sulfate. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:40, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Any chance of it being ethyl hydrogen sulphate: CH₃-CH₂-OH + Na-O-SO₃H → CH₃-CH₂-O-SO₃H + Na-OH ? Sulphuric acid perfoms the equivalent hydrogen-sulphate substitution (for the -ol group, thus forming water). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:7D0:8310:5B80:DACB:8AFF:FEA7:FCDD (talk) 16:14, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

"Dubious"? "used to leaven cake mixes"?

The article currently says, "Sodium bisulfate is used as a food additive to leaven cake mixes (make them rise)[dubious – discuss]". There doesn't seem to be a discussion here about it. I did find this, which claims it is so used. Anyone object to the removal of the dubious tag, and replacing with cite? Gzuufy (talk) 21:16, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Sodium bisulfate and PAA used to control listeria

Research has been done on the use of sodium bisulfate with peracetic acid to control listeria on apples. A peer-reviewed article is available online as an open access article. A decontamination approachusing a comination of bisulfate of soda and peracetic acid against listeria innocua inoculated on whole apples CLO124 (talk) 15:08, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

No sour taste?

Isn't the sour taste coupled to pH i.e. the hydrogen ion? How could one then lower pH without a sour taste? A stronger acid like the bisulphate ion might give a low pH without increasing the buffer capacity thus giving a less persistent sour taste (other factors might affect persistence too), but this statement needs support and clarification!150.227.15.253 (talk) 21:12, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

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