Talk:Secret Garden (South Korean TV series)

Sexual assault portrayed as romantic in this drama

I created, in late February 2014, a "controversy" section in this article, reading as follows:

"Some Western viewers object strongly to scenes in which Kim Joo-won's sexual assaults on Gil Ra-im are portrayed as romantic, and received by her as such. As usual in discussions of media portrayals of sexual assault, other viewers object to these objections; some offer explanations involving traditional Korean gender politics."

I've removed the footnote because it didn't go anywhere, but the first sentence was referring to two blogs, one the single most important blog on Korean dramas in English, the other, well, not:

Dramabeans recap of episode 13, December 2010 Outside Seoul blog, August 2013.

This was removed March 1, with reference to the unreliability of blogs (as self-published works) as sources. Considering that the reference was essentially meant to back up "Some Western viewers object", I thought this preposterous: what's a more reliable source for someone's objections than, well, that person's objections? A friend, himself vehemently hostile to Wikipedia in general, nevertheless took the trouble to point out to me that the anonymity of blogs (anonymity being a personal pet peeve of his own) means that, in principle, I could be citing a single person who'd manufactured all the relevant posts and comments. This is preposterous, but I'm prepared to concede that if one's trying to do value-neutral editing, it sort of resembles a reasonable proposition.

And in any event the title of this talk section, which I created in response to the deletion, clearly isn't supported by this sort of content. So.

In the universe where not all people with similar thoughts are a single sock puppet, then, I, and a bunch of others who are not me and who posted about it long before I saw the relevant scenes, saw roughly the following: In episode 11 of the 20-episode drama, the leading man, Kim Joo-Won, played by Hyun Bin, grabs the leading woman, Gil Ra-Im, played by Ha Ji-Won, while both are standing, pulls her to him, and kisses her. By itself this is not unusual for Korean drama; the difference is that here she's trying to fight him off the whole time. In episode 13, after a long sequence in which he tries to gain access to a bedroom she's occupying in a property he owns, he tricks her into opening the door, and pulls her onto the bed with him, both horizontal; there he proceeds to embrace her, against both her physical resistance and her repeated verbal objections. The only difference from rape, really, is that he goes no further.

And here's the critical part: both are portrayed as *romantic* milestones for the couple; during the second, we're given her thoughts in voiceover, proving as much. This strong female lead doesn't consider sexual assault a dealbreaker.

My thought was that in English Wikipedia, it's reasonable to point out that plenty of English-speaking viewers have found these scenes more or less objectionable; a sizeable minority of those I've seen opine, including myself, found that one or both ruined the drama for them. So it's proper to warn potential viewers about it. Unfortunately, since there seems to be no "objective" source that's bothered to document this reaction (at least in English; I'd be interested to know, for example, whether the Seoul YWCA weighed in), it apparently can't be reported on the drama's own page, so I'm reporting it here instead.

Joe Bernstein joe@sfbooks.com not a registered Wikipedian, and after this unlikely to become one

205.175.116.97 (talk) 01:49, 3 March 2014 (UTC) 66.212.78.187 (talk) 02:03, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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How to summarize the story

I believe there is no real love square since Yoon Seul and Oska are loving each other from the beginning, and Yoon Seul temporarily going for Joo Won is only for rational reasons. Also, Raíms affection for Oska is clearly fandom. There is a serious threat to Joo Won by the stunt company director though.

Anyway this all is not the main focus of the series; rather it is the main couple struggling to accept each other, and trying to find out why they are connected, why belong together, and the respective backstory.

There is not a single moment when either Joo Won or Raím think of loving anyone else, even when they hesitate if they can be together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.182.117.187 (talk) 20:22, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

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