Talk:Sayyidat Nisa' al-Alamin

Translation

The only English-language source translates this title as "leader" of all the women of the world. The article goes on to use the words "master" and "best of". Can we make sure this is consistent? Yoninah (talk) 23:55, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

I tried to remove/solve the mentioned issue --as you said-- and also obviated the problem of "original research" (almost!). Hopefully, it can be helpful/adequate. Ali Ahwazi (talk) 10:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Also, where does the "of all times" part come from? Is this the standard translation in Arabic? HaEr48 (talk) 02:54, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Disputed tag

A DYK nomination for this article was rejected based on the following comments:

1. I reviewed the references a bit and it doesn't seem very satisfactory. Especially the Sunni section, it cherrypicks several opinions of individual Sunni scholars (who might not even use the exact term as far as I can see), and then use those to support the generic statement that "Sunni Islam considers Fatimah as Sayyidat Nisa al-Alamin". Many of the citation are primary (using primary texts from centuries ago) and might not necessarily reflect the opinion of the Sunni community as a whole. HaEr48 (talk) 07:04, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
2. To be honest I'm still not satisfied with the Sunni section. The references seem to be cherrypicked and not very encyclopedic. There are a lot of WP:WEASEL wording such as "there are quotations from famous Sunni scholar" or " There are also similar narration(s) from Sunni sources", cited to either questionable source or very fringe books. If this is a title that mainstream Sunni use, surely the author should be able to find a more mainstream citation? Therefore, I doubt the suitability of including Sunni in the hook, or even in the article. No comment on the Shia part, because I'm not familiar with Shia sources. HaEr48 (talk) 04:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
3. I'm still very skeptical about this nomination. The main assertion in the Sunni section ("Sunni Islam considers Fatimah (Muhammad's daughter and Ali's wife) as Sayyidat Nisa al-Alamin") on which the hook also depends are cited to obscure items (books with no link/authorlink/ISBN/etc.) and a website of unclear authority. Surely if this is an accepted Sunni view, more mainstream sources can be found? I'll also drop a message in the WP:ISLAM talk page to see if other folks can provide info or more sources.
   1. Just to provide context to other editors: the degree of reverence for the members of Muhammad family (such as Fatimah, the subject here) is sometimes a source of tension between Shia and Sunni Islam. Sunnis, while respecting the family, are typically wary of the excessive (according to Sunnis) reverence often given by Shias. This is why I'd like to be careful about the hook and the Sunni section. Without solid references this might appear controversial. HaEr48 (talk) 02:49, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
4. What I still find concerning though, is the synthesis of multiple sources to imply that the entirety of Shi'ism/Sunnism attributes this title to Fatimah, although only a select few literally say this in-text. Most other references only say that Fatimah is called sayyidat nisa' al-'alamin, while no explicit link is given between the reference being Shi'i/Sunni and it attributing the title to Fatimah. A case of WP:OVERCITE if you will. --HyperGaruda (talk) 15:57, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

• Yoninah (talk) 23:33, 28 July 2018 (UTC)