Talk:Quadruple jump

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This page was created because the history of the quad can no longer be found anywhere on the internet, although it used to be maintained several years ago. The information was mostly taken from a saved html page that was lying on my hard drive since 2000, and I have updated it somewhat (but only with documented events -- undocumented events are from the original document). Since that info is public knowledge, I assume that there is no copyright problem (in fact, the original page did not claim any copyright at all).

The list is definitly not complete. Some of the listed events are "official" (meaning recognized officially by the ISU), and some others are from ice skating lore. For instance, Robert Wagenhoffer was widely known to have been practicing quads in the 70's before anybody else, and to have landed his first in 79. Although there is no "proof", it hasn't ever, to my knowledge, been questionned.

There is no doubt that a few clean landings in competitions are missing, especially when considering National championships, as these did not generate as much noise as international competitions. However, for the same reason, less documentation is available to verify the claims this page may potentially generate.

It would be great if someone could include significant quad-related events for ladies after 2002... It does not seem to make sense however to keep going with the men (except for other quad firsts when they'll happen, like quad axel for instance), as quads have become the norm there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolitos (talk • contribs) 21:23, 3 January 2008

I see your point. However, on Wikipedia, things do need to verifiable and cited properly. Most of these things have no citations, and undocumented occurances that "everyone" knows about still need to be properly cited. As most of this, as you said, is from a website of unknown copyright, I suggest merging this page entirely into Figure skating jumps and removing everything that can't be cited, or that has been outright stolen from another website in violation of copyright. Kolindigo (talk) 21:39, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Wrt to merging with the main Figure Skating page, that might make sense. The reason a separate page was originally made was because "quad", as a figure skating term, was listed in the disambiguation page for "Quad". My opinion is that the history of the quad would overload the main figure skating page with a whole bunch of dates that probably few people are interested in, but if you guys think it makes sense, I have no problem with that, I just thought it made more sense that way.

Wrt to deleting entries that have no citation, I would suggest waiting until someone has at least tried to find references to these events. If noone else cares about this, I can continue with this research, as I have added a few references already, and hope to find more authoritative ones.

What is your suggestion for entries such as Robert Wagenhoffer's ? It's clear we can find references to the fact that he was training on quads in the 70's, but I don't think any of this is ever going to be authoritative, certainly no news about his landing it is going to be so. Perhaps changing this entry to something like "Claims that Robert Wagenhoffer lands a quad in training are circulating", or something to that effect, so as to make clear the nature of the information ? Certainly, removing it altogether would be removing an important part of skating lore, as it pertains to the quad. Let me know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolitos (talk • contribs) 21:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to try and clean up the page using your recommendations, adding references where I can. I'm hoping we can keep the unreferenced entries in the meantime, until I've had a chance to perform the additional research. I'll do my best to do that quickly so as not to leave this page in this state for too long. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolitos (talk • contribs) 22:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

-Why does the first paragraph state that no skater has completed a Quad Axel in competition, then go on to list all the completed Quadruple Axels in competition history? If there is a distinction between what's said and what is meant, it should be clearer. 208.120.180.219 (talk) 04:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

-Because that's not a list of quad axels, it's a list of all early quads jumps and attempts. The quad axel is mentionned because it has half a turn more than the normal four, which sets it apart from the rest of the quad jumps. Re-reading the article, this seems clear, actually... no ?

surya bonaly 1996

Surya Bonaly attempted a quad salchow in her long program at the 96 World Championships in Edmonton, Canada. It was a fall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.243.33.147 (talk) 22:56, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Quad Axel

There has been no quadruple axel jump by a single skater completed in an competition and ratified by ISU. It is not appropriate to mention one incident of quad axel jump attempt during a training session in the text, since there could be many other attempts of quad axel jumps in a similar situation not reported. Seameetsmountain (talk) 03:05, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Yet Yuzuru Hanyu's three attempts during public practice at 2019 Grand Prix Final, the last nearly fully rotated (it would have been counted as fully rotated, by ISU rules, in competition), in spite of the falls, may be mentioned, because, if of course it could not be sanctioned (being jumped during practice), this practice was a public one, during a competition, which makes of it, to this date, the closest event to a successful quadruple axel landing in competition. First video at normal speed, second video in slow motion from 2:13 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI7yx0Q-qJI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXJfbNYifpA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:DC:AF2F:D019:A83B:2411:4E79:5E01 (talk) 17:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Quad (figure skating)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Quad (figure skating)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "IN110920":

• From Eric Radford: Rutherford, Lynn (September 20, 2011). "Japanese, Canadian pairs face off at Mid-Atlantics". Icenetwork. Retrieved September 20, 2011.
• From Brandon Mroz: Brannen, Sarah S.; Meekins, Drew (September 20, 2011). "The Inside Edge: The new quad king". Icenetwork.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 16:27, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Programs

The list needs to include whether a quad was performed in SP or FP, especially for the recent surge in quads performed by females. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Timeline section

In my opinion, this section should be removed from the article. It's really not necessary to list every single quad attempt in the history of the sport, and its presence on the page is just encouraging people to continue adding trivia, most of it unreferenced. We already have a history of first jumps section, any other important information could easily be included elsewhere in the article. Artemisia (talk) 12:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree. The Axel jump page was listing every female skater who had landed a triple Axel but the list was removed recently, with it now just naming the first male and female skaters to land each jump in competition. I have cut the article dramatically and essentially merged the "History of firsts" and "Timeline of major events" sections together. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 05:04, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

@Abbyjjjj96: Hi, I want to say I really appreciate the new direction you have for the page, it looks neat. But I think Hanyu's 4T+3A+SEQ should be included as a First. According to the latest handbook, a jump sequence "consists of 2 (two) jumps of any number of revolutions, beginning

with any listed jump, immediately followed by an Axel type jump with a direct step from

the landing curve of the first jump to the take-off curve of the Axel jump". A quad-Eu-triple jump is no longer counted as a sequence, but a combination. So, what Hanyu did is in different category than a quad-triple combination, and since he's the first and only skater to do so to date, it makes sense to be included. Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:36, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh yes, I now see it mentions combinations and sequences and understand why you included it. I have restored it. Sorry about that! Although, I'm not sure that combinations or sequences should be mentioned at all. When I cut the page down, I was following the format on the Axel page of firsts, and there they do not include combinations. I only kept them in this article because I was already cutting it down so much. Perhaps it should be trimmed further. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 17:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

I think it's alright for now since we haven't gotten any quad-quad combination/sequence in competition. I don't think we will get any for another two seasons. Since all variations of first quad-triple and sequence have been mentioned, we won't need to add anything in near future. We could trim it out again when the quad-quads are coming. - Yolo4A4Lo (talk) 07:22, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Adellia Petrosian first female Quad Loop

I added her as the first female to perform a Quad Loop. Sources are conflicting about whether her first quad loops at the 5th stage of the Russian Cup qualifier were:

1) clean. Source at the bottom of the page in the chronology section says it was landed with a "q" call, but official russian sources say it was clean. Here's a credible Twitter source with a video:

• https://twitter.com/RusEmbUSA/status/1461807892433182722

and

2) whether she landed or not the second quad loop during her routine. Source at the bottom of the page in the chronology section says she fell, but official Russian sources say it was clean.

Facebook videos also confirm she landed both quads during the 2022 Russian Championships free skate routine, nailing the first one and debatable calls on the second one:

• https://www.facebook.com/armeniansabroad/videos/2024702544356211

HyeProfile (talk) 01:08, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2022

In the table of skaters who have landed a quad in competition, Kurt Browning is listed as being from the United States, however he is from Canada. Please change the country from United States to Canada. 209.171.202.170 (talk) 13:23, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

 Done Cannolis (talk) 15:13, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2022

Kamila Valieva first woman to land a quad at the Olympics Also landed quads many times at various competitions 2001:8003:3909:7E01:A859:9657:B536:7B5B (talk) 08:25, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:22, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Valieva is already mentioned as the first woman to land a quad at the Olympics. This article is no longer listing every single quad performed, see the discussion above. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 16:33, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

First quad at Olympics

Currently, the article states that Chinese skater Zhang Min landed the first clean quad at the Olympics, in Lillehammer 1994, but it's unsourced. The Did you know... section on this talk page says that Czech skater Petr Barna was the first to land a quad at the Olympics, in Albertville 1992. Barna's article cites IFS magazine. I have changed the article to reflect this. Alexei Urmanov is still mentioned as the first skater to land a quad at the Olympics (also 1992) but that he touched his hand down, although that is also unsourced. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 16:51, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

I am cutting Urmanov out since it's mentioned that Alexandre Fadeev was the first skater to attempt a quad at the Olympics (in 1984) but his flawed landing meant it was not ratified. So, Urmanov is the second skater to land a flawed quad and thus should not be listed in the history of firsts. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 16:57, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Ugh, sorry for so much editing back and forth on this. Barna's 1992 quad wasn't clean, so adding Zhang back in. Since there's already Fadeev (and Urmanov) landing unclean quads at Olympics, that means Barna's should be removed because not a first. Does the ISU officially say anywhere which was the first ratified Olympic quad? Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 17:21, 21 February 2022 (UTC)