Talk:Prix Iris

I am sorry, I am unable to capitalize the title of this article. I will continue researching to fill in the enormous blanks. LLP 02:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

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Renaming the ceremonies?

I'd like to solicit comment about the way the individual Prix Jutra→Iris ceremonies (which do not all have articles yet) are titled, with a view to potentially renaming them in a different format, before I continue filling in the still-missing articles. As the background is kind of long, however, I'm going to follow the "keep the initial RFC brief and then expand on it with a followup comment" format, rather than filing a really long RFC statement from the outset. Bearcat (talk) 16:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Background

In 2016, after the publication of a book which alleged that film director Claude Jutra (the original namesake of these awards) had sexually abused underage children, Québec Cinéma (the presenting organization) stripped his name from the awards. The ceremony that year was presented only under the name "(Prix) Québec Cinéma (Awards)", before being renamed Prix Iris the following year. On the English Wikipedia, we responded to the situation by using the titles "## Jutra Awards" up until the name stripping, and then the 2016 ceremony is uniquely titled "18th Quebec Cinema Awards" with its numbering continuing from the prior Jutra ceremony — but then the awards since then are titled "## Prix Iris" with the numbering reset back to one. The person who argued for this suggested that we should follow the template set by the Canadian Screen Awards, which had their numbering reset back to one when they launched under their current name — but that's not actually an equivalent scenario, because the Canadian Screen Awards were not a simple renaming of one award, but a merger of two awards which were not numerically aligned with each other previously. So not resetting the numbering in that case would have been literally impossible, because should they have been the "33rd Canadian Screen Awards" to keep continuity with the Genies, or the "27th Canadian Screen Awards" to keep continuity with the Geminis?

However, this is not what's happening on the French Wikipedia. Over there (where for obvious reasons the articles are all already fully in place), they're using a naming format that keeps the numbering going — instead of calling them the 1st, 2nd and 3rd "Prix Iris", the French Wikipedia is calling them the 19th, 20th and 21st "gala Québec Cinéma". (Admittedly they have left the older articles at the existing title format "## soirée des prix Jutra" rather than mass-renaming them, but they still keep the numbering consistent through the renaming rather than resetting the Iris ceremonies back to one.) This is also, in fact, more consistent with the official numbering of the ceremonies by Québec Cinéma itself — it also does not enumerate the Prix Iris as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd iterations of a new award, but as the 19th, 20th and 21st iterations of the same award under a different name. As far as I'm concerned the organization's own official numbering of its own presentations should be treated as definitive for how we number them here — but since there was a disagreement about this in the past, I felt it better to request comment rather than arbitrarily renaming them myself.

Accordingly, what I would like to propose is that we rename them all to "## Quebec Cinema Awards". The old names would obviously be retained as redirects so that people who expected those titles could find them that way, but we need to ensure that they're numbered the same way in both English and French, because the current inconsistency is confusing and reflects badly on the project — and at any rate, it constitutes original research to make our own arbitrary decision to renumber the awards differently than the awards number themselves. Bearcat (talk) 17:08, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I think Bearcat's recommendation makes sense, and I like the way that the awards have been listed by French Wikipedia. But when I see how Québec Cinéma themselves list their awards, they appear to be doing so by year, rather than by a numbering sequence - see [1]. Might this be a better alternative (eg: 2019 Quebec Cinema Awards) ? PKT(alk) 20:33, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

It's not a question of how it organizes its website — the Canadian Screen Awards website is also organized by year rather than by ordinally numbering the ceremony, but their ceremonies clearly still have ordinal numbers in press releases and media coverage. Rather, we can look to sources like this (19^e) and this (20^e) and this (21^e), which would clearly have reset the numbers to one if Québec Cinéma had reset the numbers to one.

But also, the reason it's not always a good idea to name award articles by year, particularly awards that are presented early in the calendar year to honour works released in the previous year, is that it sets up a POV conflict: is the Canadian Screen Awards ceremony that was supposed to happen last week, but got cancelled because coronapocalypse, the 2020 CSAs because the ceremony was supposed to happen in 2020, or are they the 2019 CSAs because they're honouring works that were released in 2019? You might certainly have an opinion on that, but other people might have a different one, which is precisely the reason why awards in that boat ordinate. To be fair, late-in-year awards like the Governor General's Literary Awards don't present the same problem — apart from a few isolated cases where a nominated work was published in December of the previous year and thus couldn't have been nominated last year because they weren't out yet, the GGs are almost always presented in the same year the works were published — but early-in-year awards, like the CSAs or the Academy Awards or these, set up a "which year do these awards really belong to?" issue. Bearcat (talk) 20:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

The thing that really bugs me here is that the numbering resets when it becomes the Iris Awards, but the year it was the "Quebec Cinema Awards" continues the previous numbering from the Jutra Awards. So not only is that reset questionable, it's not even consistent! Moving them all to "## Quebec Cinema Awards" makes sense to me, and I also like what the FR wiki is doing for the table list. — Kawnhr (talk) 04:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)