Talk:Phineus

Name Variations

Ancient Greek sources only ever mention Phineus, never Phineas. The first name has two syllables in Greek (Phi-neus); the second has three (Phi-ne-as), and is furthermore a completely different name, being a late borrowing of the Coptic name Pinehas which in Coptic means "the southerner." Why are the two names treated as equivalents in this and other articles? They're not the same name! -- Darrell M., 69.248.116.112 00:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Liver

Also, I'm quite sure it was Prometheus whose liver was eaten. Someone might be a little confused on that point. Therefore I'm removing it and if I'm shown a reference stating it was Phineus as well, then I'll put it back. Ok? Ragnarokmephy 02:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Multiple Phinei

I think that this article could be split up in several different articles, one on each of the mythological figures. Either that or separate the different figures with headings, to make the article easier to read. T@nn 02:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

FYI, I did it already. 69.249.128.195 (talk) 15:04, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

In Popular Culture

also Dani Filth mentions Phineas in the song "The Smoke of Her Burning" on the Cradle of Filth album Damnation and a Day - "...like Phineus, now I see..."

Damn good album. Ragnarokmephy 03:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

See Alsos

The current See Also list seems a bit dubious to me. It's just a list of unrelated figures who happened to have the same first name. I'm going to wipe it out since it simply doesn't seem relevant. A more appropriate list of See Alsos will hopefully take its place. 75.6.253.173 06:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Perseus

There should also be mentioned an another version of (the first) Phineus' life and death. According to the myth of Perseus he wanted to marry his niece Andromeda (daughter to his brother Cepheus) and was petrified by his rival Perseus who held the head of Medusa before him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.141.175.180 (talk) 14:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I did this too.69.249.128.195 (talk) 15:04, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Phineas > Phineus

In 2006 (above) an IP noted that Phineas does not occur in Ancient Greek. Phineas (Φινέας) is the Modern Greek form. Since this an ancient topic, the ancient form should be the headword, no less because it's the form used in English-language scholarship. I don't know if the headword stemmed from the modern form or from a mistaken direct identification with the modern given name Phineas, but I do believe that a move ought to be made to Phineus (mythology) or just plain Phineus, usurping that disambiguation page as these Phineuses are the ones folks will be after most of the time. I doubt that Phineas is WP:MOSTCOMMON for this figure in English, and the interwikis point toward forms derived directly from Φινεύς being most common globally. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 13:01, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, Phineas is a mistake in English (though correct in modern Greek). My suggestion would be to move the dab page to "Phineus (disambiguation)", because, of the other two people mentioned on it, one is a very minor mythological figure (hardly needing a page of his own) and the other has two names. So this page could then take the Phineus spot. Andrew Dalby 17:21, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I think you're right. See for instance  Smith, William, ed. (1870). "Phineus". Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology. Vol. 3. p. 336. and Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). "Phineus". Encyclopædia Britannica. Vol. 21 (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press. p. 446.. The shift of -eus to -eas in modern Greek is common, see for instance Piraeus Πειραιεύς --> Πειραιάς, Perseus Περσεύς --> Περσέας, Odysseus Ὀδυσσεύς --> Οδυσσέας. Markussep ^Talk 18:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Somehow I missed the fact that the figures on the dab page are simply those represented here, along with a character from Harry Potter who is actually named Phineas and covered at the proper dab page for that name. So I assume that this page (as it is) can simply usurp the dab page, and maybe there should be a hatnote Not to be confused with Phineas (disambiguation). But should "Phineas (disambiguation)" be moved under this article's title? — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 19:19, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually, that hatnote might come across as insensitive to native Greek-speakers, but some point toward Phineas would be necessary, if only because the past decade of this page's existence will have created an audience for whom Phineas is the proper anglophone designation for the Ancient Greek name. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 21:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

According to Smith and the Britannica the son (or grandson) of Agenor and the husband of Cleopatra are the same person. I found the connection with Andromeda in Smith's article about Andromeda, not sure whether that's the same Phineus, or did he die twice? About the hatnote, why not make that "For other uses of Phineus or Phineas see ...", and mention Phineas as an alternative spelling (or just modern Greek, but that would be Fineas) for Phineus. Markussep ^Talk 21:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, the article itself has some issues. I'll work on these as we deal with the renaming. As it is, the article appears to split Phineus of the Argonautic saga between the two subheadings: A.R. Arg. 2.178 (with scholia) makes him son of Agenor, the Catalogue of Women says he was son of Phoenix, and the Bibliotheca says that some say he was son of Agenor, others of Poseidon (i.e. Poseidon slept with Agenor's wife). I'm pretty sure that the Phineus who has to do with Andromeda is the son of Belos, but this is why we don't allow original research, and shouldn't, so I'll dig up reliable recent sources. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 22:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

After looking through the sources and rewriting the bit about the Argonautica character (which can be greatly expanded), I think this headword might better be devoted to him. There is enough material on the uncle of Andromeda to support a quick start-class article, which I'm drafting now. So Phineus should probably be moved to Phineus (disambiguation), linking these two Phineuses and listing the third with a link to Lycaon. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 19:33, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Good work, and good plan! Markussep ^Talk 19:56, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: pages moved -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:51, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

---

• Phineas → Phineus
• Phineus → Phineus (disambiguation)

– See preceding discussion. The current headword of this page is a misspelling, so Phineas should be moved to Phineus (this is the primary topic for this headword). Phineus is currently the disambiguation page, so Phineus (disambiguation) should be deleted and the current content of Phineus moved there. The majority of the links have already been fixed in advance of this move. Thank you. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 14:50, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

• Support as nominator. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 15:58, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support. As the name of mythological characters "Phineas" would be correct in modern Greek but it is a misspelling in English, so the changes are needed. Andrew Dalby 16:19, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support per discussion above. Markussep ^Talk 16:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support, and I'll go a step further and suggest that Phineas (disambiguation) be moved to Phineas as well. Powers ^T 20:36, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Good call: next logical step, as Phineas certainly shouldn't be a redirect to Phineus. I've place a note on Phineas (disambiguation), and in fn. 1 here, that "Phineas" occasionally appears for Phineus in pop-culture. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 02:16, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.