Talk:Paul Doornbusch

Comments on WP:BLP tag: regarding notability, reliability and utility of sources

This page was brought to my attention by a colleague. As a peer of the subject I am not prepared to make substantial edits to the page. However I would like to provide information here for someone else to review.

Clarification of user:Ross_bencina's relation to the subject: The subject is a professional acquaintance. I have served with him on the board of a professional association. We occasionally socialise -- the last time was last year. Ross bencina (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

With regard to the WP:BLP tag on this page, and the reverts and comments in the edit history, there appear to be two issues being debated: One is the notability of the subject, the other is the reliability of the sources. Each citation may be seen as serving one or both purposes.

There are currently three sources:

• A BBC news item that cites the subject as a source: "... Paul Doornbusch, a computer music composer and historian at the New Zealand School of Music, told BBC News." Presumably the BBC is a reliable source. The quote confirms that the subject is a computer music composer and historian. user:Joe Decker who added this cite commented in the edit history "doesn't go towards the sort of coverage that demonstrates notability via WP:GNG". Personally, I would argue that the cite supports the notion that the subject is notable as an authority on the first computer music produced with the CSIRAC (he wrote a book about it, I have read it) -- few other living people could claim such authority. On the other hand, I'm unsure whether being used as a source by the BBC is sufficient for notability under WP:SIGCOV.

• Citation: Europa Publications Limited. "International who's who in classical music." Europa Publications Limited, 2009, p. 202. (Europa is an imprint of Taylor_&_Francis). The Paul Doornbusch entry exists, I verified it with google books. user:Drmies deleted this reference in revert on 05:32, 9 August 2011 stating "NONE of these things can be called reliable sources". Is there an official WP editors ruling on reliability of Europa who's who? The first page of Europa's who's who series (2001 edition -- a different edition that I could find online) states:

"Each edition is compiled from information supplied by those listed. [...] Naturally there is no fee or charge for inclusion."

From this it might be concluded that the Europa "who's who" is a reliable primary source under WP:BLPSPS. However, given that the material is supplied by the subject, it would not appear to qualify as a secondary source for notability purposes according to WP:GNG.

• A citation to the subject's biographical profile page on "The Living Composers Project" web site I note that this may fall under the scope of a self-published website according to WP:USERGENERATED. This raises questions about whether it should be cited at all on WP. The maintainers of The Living Composers Project state on their home page:

"All information included in the project has been approved or verified by the composers"

and:

"If you are a composer and are interested in submitting information or a link for the project, please contact Dan or Ron by clicking on their names above."

This would suggest that in general this once again could be considered a reliable primary source under WP:BLPSPS but fails the secondary source test for notability WP:GNG.

I also note that for "relatively unknown" people WP:NPF suggests: "include only material relevant to their notability, focusing on high quality secondary sources". Ross bencina (talk) 16:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Uncited verbatim material from subject's CV

I note that since the creation of the article by user:Pierre cummings the article includes uncited sentences sourced directly from the subject's CV including:

• "his compositional concerns involve new forms for music appropriate for contemporary culture and these are expressed in his Continuity series of pieces which examine degrees of (overlapping) continuity and fragmentation." (can be found in middle paragraph 1 in ref)

• "As an algorithmic composer, Doornbusch has identified and examined in detail the mapping stage of the process where structural data becomes musical parameters." (can be found at start paragraph 3 in ref)

The remainder of the material in the first paragraph is a rehash of material in the sources CV and another online artist's biography . Ross bencina (talk) 16:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Further to this, I determined that the bulk of the first paragraph was a direct lift from the subjects 2002 CD liner notes. I have factored that material out to the end and placed in quotations with a citation.Ross bencina (talk) 19:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Paul Doornbusch/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

stub: basic info supplied; needs: in-line references, more details, sectns & an infobox;Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 10:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 02:26, 30 April 2016 (UTC)