Talk:Organised crime in Australia

See also

Is not how an article is developed! That is an indiscriminate collection and mix of links - and should be kept on this page as a to do - not in main space! SatuSuro 03:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Donald Mackay anti-drugs campaigner in Griffith, New South Wales
'Ndrangheta
Royal Commission into Drug Trafficking aka Woodward Royal Commission
Robert Trimbole
National Crime Authority
Al Grassby MP
Bob Bottom Crime Reporter, http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/bob.bottom.htm
John Hatton MLA NSW, http://www.parlpapers.sl.nsw.gov.au/display.cfm?parl_id=7600
Perc Galea http://www.abc.net.au/tv/thetrack/ep5trans.htm
Robert Askin
Crime in Sydney
Crime in Melbourne
Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service (Wood Royal Commission) http://www.aic.gov.au/policing/wood.html http://www.pic.nsw.gov.au/RoyalCommission.aspx?Culture=en-AU
Frederick Hanson
Fred Krahe
Roger Rogerson
David Hickie journalist
Frank Nugan
Abe Saffron
http://www.melbournecrime.bizhosting.com/honoured.society.htm

At least half of these need to be put anywhere but the see also section - they need to be included in the article space as refs or content?

Each item needs to be addressed in this grab bag - and there is a need for clear cut identification of how it relates to this article otherwise it does not stay.. cheers SatuSuro 03:28, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistencies

This "article" has some severe inconsistencies. It talks about the Australian mafia being an offshoot of the Sicilian mafia, but most of the names of the crime figures above and in the links to the article are anglo-celtic names. The 'ndragheta is also offered as an example - but they're Calabrian! It says the Australian mafia is rural like the Sicilian version, but the birthplace and stronghold of the Sicilian mafia is Palermo, the 5th largest city in Italy (and it was the 2nd largest city in Italy in the late 19th century). In any event, crime statistics in Australia show higher crime figures in the city than in country areas. In short, this article reads like absolute bull shit and populist imaginings (fed by recent TV shows) and is not worthy of being an article in a serious encyclopaedia. Aren't we really talking about some piss-ant crime groups with very little to distinguish them from the general Australian criminal population. If so - where does the term: "Australian Mafia" come from? And how on earth is it an offshoot from the Sicilian mafia? πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 23:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Agree. This is rubbish. I'm moving it to Organised crime in Australia for a start.. Moondyne 02:56, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

And have reorganised it a bit. There's just no evidence of endemic mafioso type families such as in big US cities existing in Australia. Organised crime syndicates certainly, but lets not overstate it unless we can see really solid references. Moondyne 03:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually you are all wrong. You should not act impulsively when it comes to changing titles and editing artictes. There is an Australian Mafia, it is alive and active. A simple Internet search on a news website can reveal much.

Check these out:

• http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,897088,00.html
• http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20666498-661,00.html
• http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20666590-2862,00.html

I am going to redo the previous article, as it has been proven to be true. Jonaspv 02:52, 23 July 2008

I suggest you read WP:SYNTH. Organised crime in Australia is a better title which avoids original research issues at the same time as being more encompassing. Moondyne 02:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

This is not about general organized crime, that is a different topic. This is about a very specific criminal group. What you are doing is incorrect. It is the same thing as not allowing a New York Yankees article to exist because there is a baseball article that encompasses it. And why did you delete my references and edits? It was all correct verifiable. Don't do that. If you want an article about Australian Organized crime, create one, because this one deals with a different subject. I am redoing it until you present a valid reason to erase it. Jonaspv (talk) 02:53, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be placing a lot a weight on this single 1964 Time article [1] which is one persons view, and in which IMHO, a degree of journalistic license has been used. Moondyne 02:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Combine that with the other sources and you got solid references. Search Gomorrah and Gangsters Encyclopedia, and you can verify the information on this page. Jonaspv (talk) 02:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Since searches of "Australian mafia" also turn up references to "Australian Cashmere mafia" and "Australian Enviro mafia" (or something similar) - you could consider a dab page (as long as you put a big smiley at the bottom of the page to show that you are joking). The previous reference was deleted because it talked about organised crime generally, when the article itself was talking about an Australian mafia being "an outgrowth" of the Sicilian mafia. Given the paucity of court records showing such a link (unlike the American situation), then this seemed an incredible claim to make. Also, quite a few excellent publications have been written over the past decade, all fully referenced, about the Sicilian mafia and its connections with an American mafia - and absolutely none of these mention Australia in any way, shape or form. Lastly, just because some petty crim has a "woggy" name does not mean we are talking about an Australian mafia. So either point us to the court records that show unequivocally that there is an Australian mafia (with a Sicilian connection) - or forget about it - everything else is speculative in the extreme and will be treated as such - including your gangsters encyclopedia, which is the most deserving of a big smiley. πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 03:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that things are very heated up around here. Whatever your name is πιππίνυ δ, relax, I got your point but you have to understand, I never said there was a Sicilian connection. I just said that it was an ofshoot of the Sicilian Mafia, wether that connection is mantained or not is another thing. I really doubt that there is a connection nowadays, but it is no secret that Sicilian Emigrants set up a criminal network in Melbourne. Does that qualify to be called "Australian Mafia"? In my opinion yes. That's what this talk page is for. Anyway I am going on a two week vacation, so you will have this page all for yourself =D (big smiley) When I return we can end the discussion, if it has not been finished by then by other users.

To finish, I would never denegrade anyone over their "woggy" surname, as I would be denegrading myself and my family as well. My surname is "Pulido" and "Valente", both very "greaseball" surnames. Now go figure. Jonaspv (talk) 03:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

My surname's a bit "greasy" too :). BalkanFever 03:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Mafia?

If any of the material from this page is salvageable, it should be placed in an article of wider scope, such as Organised crime in Australia, which could mention this "Australian Mafia", but focus on the more verifiable elements, such as the Melbourne gangland killings. BalkanFever 03:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your solution. Jonaspv (talk) 03:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

In fact, I can't help thinking this article covers the modern situation completely. As for "organised crime in Australia" - I would have thought that there is a place for such an article, as long as it isn't just about Sicilians and Calabrians - I would have thought there has been one form or other of organised crime in Australia going back to the 19th century. People in the bush using intimadatory tactics to extract a bit of coin from fellow travellers - ring a bell? πιππίνυ δ - (dica) 03:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Since the article is at the title now, it definitely should be expanded to include the gangland stuff, and then any other organised crime; probably price-fixing like that ofRichard Pratt and maybe the bushrangers. BalkanFever 03:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

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I will work on it

I will try and get working on this article after I finish with my other important project. This article needs serious improvement. User:Zapacit 04:44, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

"youth gangs"

I can't see how most of the "youth gangs" stuff belongs here.

Actual organised crime outfits have always been virtually exclusive of juveniles. (At most they employ kids as foot soldiers.)

This was especially so in the 1940s–1970s; bodgies/widgies, sharpies etc were primarily subcultures, like their overseas counterparts. Their membership and "adult gangs" were mutually exclusive. A lot of their members dabbled in petty crime, but they were, almost by definition, not organised – and not running weed plantations, cooking speed/meth or importing heroin.

Grant | Talk 11:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree. This section also doesn't have any citations besides those in its last paragraph (which isn't even relevant to youth gangs). I'm making a proposal to delete that section.

FropFrop (talk) 09:36, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to delete 'Street and youth gangs'

It is poorly written, filled with grammatical issues and does not include citations (except in its off topic last paragraph). Even if it is a topic worth including, I expect it would have to be rewritten from the ground up. FropFrop (talk) 09:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)