Talk:Odeon hill and park of the Roman villas of Carthage

Please advise

I have reason to believe that the name "Odeon hill and park of the Roman villas of Carthage" is artificial. I ran a search and the term does not appear prior to the creation of the article "Colline de l'odéon et parc des villas romaines de Carthage" on fr.wiki. The original article was translated to Spanish and Arabic. Someone on the Spanish project had the insight to rename the article "Colina del Odeon", which makes more sense. Further to the above, the text is incoherent, and I have asked the creator to review the almost word-for-word translation. I suggest at least renaming and returning it to draft space until the issues are resolved. @Onceinawhile, @Doug Weller @SilkTork @Dbachmann can you please advise? el.ziade (talkallam) 02:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

At a quick glance, this article appears to be about several buildings in Roman Carthage - the odeon, the theatre, and the villa of the aviary, plus some historical background. Our article on Roman Carthage contains no information on these buildings. A quick search reveals very few sources in English, though there are some works in French due to a 15 year co-operative study by the French and Tunisians. I found mention of the House of the Rotonda and House of the Cryptoportico which were on the hill occupied by the odeon. I'm not getting a clear image of this selection of ruins in Roman Carthage as being notable as a specific collection. Perhaps individually? Certainly it would be useful to have information on these buildings contained in Roman Carthage, and perhaps a first step would be to merge the contents into Roman Carthage, and then when sufficient material has been gathered on the theatre, or the odeon, or one or more of the Roman villas, they could be split out, leaving an appropriate summary and link to the new article. SilkTork (talk) 03:59, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Sounds good. Some English language sources would also be nice for our non-French speaking readers. Doug Weller talk 08:44, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

I sometimes ponder if most or all sources are in one language (which have not been translated into another language), if that signifies that the topic is only notable for that language wiki. SilkTork (talk) 15:58, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I came here to ask for a move to some other name, then I saw this discussion and investigated a bit. The article roman Carthage doesn't mention the villas, which was already mentioned by Doug Weller. The Odeon Weller mentioned is just any odeon, and not the Odeon of Carthage. My suggestion is a move to Odeon hill. There seems to be quite some academic articles on it on Jstor/Cairns (same author) or open editon journals. Odeon hill is fairly expanded not with sources but with info that can be easily sourced I believe. Apart of the archaeological site, it is probably also notable for Winston Churchill speaking to his troops in World War II and film productions were produced on Odeon hill as well. This is not sourced but I found a commons file of Winston Churchill on Odeon Hill, so I assume there might be something.21:26, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Churchill addressed the troops in Carthage amphitheatre, which is larger than the Odeon, and in a different part of Carthage. I also came upon the works by Eric Morvillez in my searches, which are the "some works in French due to a 15 year co-operative study by the French and Tunisians". I feel that the Odeon and the villas can be mentioned in our existing article on Roman Carthage, which does need building up. When there is sufficient material on the Odeon and/or the villas, that can be split out. Unless there is an objection, I will merge this article into Roman Carthage, and do some work on it. SilkTork (talk) 18:23, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

@SilkTork, sorry for that with Churchill. It was already within the article and came together with the International Festival of Carthage which I was able to source but actually only takes places there in part, as I learned now. I tried to find a source for Churchill the last hour or two, but was not successful. But I found those two interesting and accessible sources for Roman Carthage. One is here on general Carthage by Ennabli alone. Here is one from Colin Wells on the Odeon hill (accessible over TWL). I will not oppose to a merge. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:52, 23 January 2023 (UTC)