Talk:Ninstints

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Marijkev11, Sydney.mcinnis, Thechillbus. Peer reviewers: Hannahrdwyer.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Time to Change Ninstints to SGang Gwaay

I visited SGang Gwaay as part of a 9 day small boat cruise to the Haida Gwaai Islands in 2013. At no time that we were in the Haida Gwaii did we see or hear the name Ninstints being used, it was always SGang Gwaay. This included the Haida Gwaii Museum. The UNESCO World Heritage Site http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/157 uses "Sgang Gwaay (Ninstints)". The 2010 Rough Guide to Canada and 2008 Lonely Planet guide to Canada both use "Sgang Gwaay (Ninstints)". Here is a page from the British Columbia Tourism site about the Haida Gwaii Islands: http://uk.britishcolumbia.travel/haida-gwaii-queen-charlotte-islands.aspx - note the reference to "SGang Gwaay UNESCO World Heritage Site". Surely it is time to change the heading of this page to SGang Gwaay. There is also in line with this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Island_%28British_Columbia%29 Chris Brackenrigg (talk) 13:12, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

If you look at the references and external link on the article page, you'll see that Ninstints or Nan Sdins is in the cites; and yes, given enough more recent references there will be chances of such a move succeeding; but I can tell you from experience with the RM (Requested Move) process that interlopers from other countries not used to the adoption of native endonyms or native placenames now standard in BC and in Canada will, or could, argue, that SGang Gwaay is not English and that, curiously "Ninstints" IS, and that it is (=was) allegedly more common; certainly in historical sources it is, and in what year SGang Gwaay started to be used in English is a good question; I see one "Ninstints" cite is from the 1980s; you're welcome to compile some modern citations here, towards someone else launching an RM....I haven't had much luck arguing common sense and modernity and respect for native peoples with the Wiki-bureaucracy, who tend to be in the UK and US and are indifferent, even hostile, to linguistic and ethnocultural realities in Canada and Canadian English, to the point of using WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS as a way of dismissing indigenous sensitivities. It was me who did start this article, or change it to, Ninstints, partly because of knowing the prevailing wiki-winds insist on "English" words (i.e. older anglicizations of maybe-miscorrect terms) vs more purely native/authentic ones, and also a distinct hostility towards native language titles; I won't say more, it's a too-long story; but if you would find some cites to balance out the "Ninstints" ones in place, that would help an RM get through; there are too many issues here to simply get an admin to move the page without discussion. One thing for sure, the underscore-G used in Haida will not be acceptable, you might even get someone bitching about the not-in-first place capital G-in-second-place as "not English". Chauvinism is alive and well in Wikipedia, all too often, and with a great deal of stubbornness attached to it, also.Skookum1 (talk) 07:41, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I changed the spelling on List of Haida villages; if there are other names on there that have "more correct" Haad kil names, please point them out and/or change them. Per "official", http://uk.britishcolumbia.travel/haida-gwaii-queen-charlotte-islands.aspx is NOT the BC Govt Tourism page, and Rough Guide and Lonely Planet "don't count" as reliable sources about official names; that site is from a private, though government-chartered with some government appointees, of "Destination BC Corp." which is privately-owned, and is for marketing of BC as a destination[1]....and so is not the arbiter of official names. http://www.hellobc.com is the actual site of the BC Ministry of Tourism and that ministry, also, is not the arbiter of official names. Currently the OFFICIAL name with the BC government is still Ninstints, BC Names OfficeCGNDB cite, and the National Historic Site is Nan Sdins National Historic Site of Canada, BC Names OfficeCGNDB cite. UNESCO is not the arbiter of official names in Canada. I can tell you from the Queen Charlotte Islands->Haida Gwaii and Salish Sea titles that until those official names are changed, as they may come to be, the title of this article is most likely to remain the same. Travel guides are not relevant sources; and at least one "official" museum site out there uses "Skungwai" rather than SGaan Gwaay; but as with UNESCO and BC Tourism or BC Tourism-affiliated pages, museum sites are not "official" unless the name of the museum itself, as with Xa:ytem. And, as noted above, there will be resistance to a change to the Haad kil name from diehards of WP:Use English and others tossing about WP:SOURCES and WP:COMMONNAME who will quantitatively include pre-modern sources.Skookum1 (talk) 01:33, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Adding another voice in favour of of changing from Ninstinst to Sgang Gwaay. It is time for Wikipedia to move beyond the above mentioned chauvinism and preclusion towards english. The obvious body for determining the appropriate name for a Haida village is the national government of the Haida Nation, the Council of the Haida Nation. (Thechillbus (talk) 17:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC))

Notes for change

In the village site section: It says that the village is located at the southern tip of the archipelago, but hasn't mentioned which archipelago it is. Also, change Queen Charlotte Islands to Haida Gwaii.

In the History section: Paragraph 1 could be tidied up/clarified. Paragraph 2 is a run on sentence. Paragraph 3 uses the term abandoned, the watchman Shailah said that the Haida don't like to use that term when talking about the villages that people migrated from because they are still watched over and the spirits there are still cared for. Hannahrdwyer (talk) 15:54, 18 September 2017 (UTC)Hannahrdwyer