Talk:Namer

Manufactured in the U.S.?

"General Dynamics Land Systems will build the first US-made heavy infantry fighting vehicles (HIFVs) after its selection in October as preferred bidder for Israel's Namer contract."- http://www.janes.com/news/defence/idr/idr101215_2_n.shtml

It isn't that surprising since the Sabra as well as the Magach are manufactured by General Dynamics but still.- Lostend (talk) 02:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

That's wrong. Magach and Sabra are upgrades for older (decades old) US tanks which were made in the USA, but they don't produce any Sabra or Magach in the USA. --Tim.vogt (talk) 22:28, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Off Topic(I'll admit I was wrong in saying the Magach and Sabra were manufactured in the USA but all M60's were produced by General Dynamics. Technically the M60 is still in production as it's variants such as the M88 Recovery Vehicle remain in production and M60T (Sabra) use factory reconditioned hulls sent back to the plant for maintenance. All the major components of the tank (hull, turret, transmission) remain in production to some degree due to the regular use of M60's in combat globally as well as the M60 2000 which is still being offered by the corporation to foreign governments as both an upgrade as well as new production runs. The last delivery of M60's to Israel was in 1986 and Israel maintains roughly a 1000 M-60's in reserve with a couple hundred rotating out deployments or activations due to obvious security reasons in the region. Both the Sabra and the Magach use the Commander's Independent Thermal Viewer manufactured by General Dynamics for the M1A1 Abrams as well as fire control subsystems. IMI assembles the system with it's products (IMI 120mm gun, Ceramic Armour inserts, Tracks) but General Dynamics produces the core systems, power packs, as well as replacement components (turrets, transmissions, hulls) for damaged tanks.Lostend (talk) 02:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Weight

The entry says 60 tonnes weight. The Merkava Mk1 tank on which it's based was 63 tonnes, and even the Mk IV is only 65t - with the turret on, and everything. The math doesn't make sense. I've seen other sources that put the Namer's weight at at closer to 45t, which seems a bit light but is within the ream of possibility. Can anyone find a more definitive source, that we can explicitly cite? Joe Katzman (talk) 19:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I had the same thoughts, but Namer was officially presented to the general public with a signboard on which anyone could read "60 tonnes". Maybe it has additional armor on mk4 hull... Flayer (talk) 22:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

perhaps removing the turret and adding fully equiped infantry men and covering the turret hole is a zero sum game more or less. there is no point making it lighter than the tanks its supposed to fight alongside. also the Israelis might not want to give detailed information. 86.33.176.49 (talk) 14:36, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Namer vs. Stryker, 30mm issue

Page 60 [1]. Flayer (talk) 12:27, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

How is "Namer" pronounced?

For those of us who don't speak Hebrew, I think that would be useful info to include in the page. 75.76.213.106 (talk) 05:57, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Done. Pronounced "Nammer". Flayer (talk) 12:54, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

In latin phonetics that would be Na-Mer For an american speaker that could be described as the combination of the words: "Num","Heir" (With a silent H on the Heir) (talk) 10:21, 06 November 2012 (UTC)

APC or IFV

According to the first sentence on this page, the "Namer, the word "a contraction of "Nagmash" (APC) and "Merkava"", is an Israeli heavily armoured heavyweight infantry fighting vehicle based on the Israeli Merkava Mark IV tank". That is wrong. The Namer is an APC, the armament is not enough to consider it an IFV. According to military-today.com it is a heavy APC. --Tim.vogt (talk) 17:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

According to defense-update.com and also according to www.army-technology.com it is an IFV. By the way, "Nagmash" in Hebrew refers to both APC and IFV. Flayer (talk) 18:21, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

The main difference between an IFV and an APC is the armament. While an IFV can engage other armoured vehicles, an APC can't effectively, they carry their weapons only for self-defence. The Namer doesn't carry the required armament, the first IFV, the SPz Lang HS.30 carried stronger armament, a 20 mm autocannon (the 40 mm grenade launchers aren't considered the proper main armament for IFVs). The Namer is somehow comparable with the GTK Boxer - heavier protected than other vehicles, but only armed with MGs or grenade launchers. Your first link to Defense-update.com shows a Namer with an autocannon (caliber: 30 mm), this could be called a IFV. If you would link to the army-technology page of the Namer instead of linking to the picture pager, you would see that they call it APC and IFV at the same time. There is no difference in Hebrew between APC and IFV (at least in the term "Nagmash"), so does the IDF make a tactical difference between these types of armoured vehicles? --Tim.vogt (talk) 13:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

The addition of SPIKE on a RCWS would certainly make the namer an IFV. This appears to be the armament suite of future namers. I suggest renaming it an IFV as soon as evidence of SPIKE deployment emerges. Irondome (talk) 23:57, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Move poll

This can be moved to Namer since it is the primary topic. Marcus Qwertyus 03:17, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

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Heads up on recent action

I haven't seen a mention in mainstream media yet, but on Xwitter it has been announced that a Namer was destroyed in Northern Gaza within the last couple of days by an anti-tank missile or RPGs, killing 10 IDF members. The Al-Qassam Brigades have released video of it. You can find the video on @sentdefender among other channels. Xwitter has been doing a better job reporting on this conflict than "reliable sources" so far. 70.108.1.24 (talk) 18:19, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Check FORBES. BeingObjective (talk) 22:09, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hyperbolic/Puffery flavored claims.

There are a few not NPOV claims in the article - they are quotes from a legitimate source - but using them in this manner really makes the whole article hyperbolic - it may well be the BEST and MOST ARMORED - but the quotes are coming from the IMD and IDF - there is plenty of data supporting the claim within the text - adding these 'WOW' claims - does not really add a lot of NPOV encyclopedic value - my IMHO anyhow - cheers. BeingObjective (talk) 22:08, 3 November 2023 (UTC)