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Benjamin Wallace
editBenjamin Wallace wrote a nonfiction book about a bottle of wine which Broadbent auctioneered. Very expensive bottle bought by Mr. Forbes. source: Authors@Google:Benjamin Wallace--Kiyarrllston 17:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, he did. It needs to be incorporated into this article, but I'm not sure how to do it. That Rodenstock is guilty of fraud is not in doubt; the only question is whether Broadbent, who continued to defend him long after the fraud was exposed (literally, blank wine labels and fake corks in his basement), knew the wines were fake. I personally think that Broadbent had to have known, but professional ambition made him push that knowledge down. A huge portion of his life's work is dependent on Rodenstock's wines. 76.22.20.146 (talk) 08:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
- You may wish to consult the article Hardy Rodenstock, but while the story contains many incriminating and eyebrow-raising aspects, you may wish to consult WP:LIBEL before you use wordings that imply criminal acts where no criminal court has ruled. Tomas e (talk) 10:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
- Having read the book, I disagree about the statement regarding "a huge portion of his life's work". It's probably true that a significant portion of the very oldest (at least according to their labels, engravings or whatever) but still drinkable wines Broadbent has tasted were Rodenstock's. That would be the 150-200+ year old wines. His many tasting notes of, say, 50-100 year wines (which are very much more numerous) are on wines from other sources, such as dusty old wine cellars of the British aristocracy left from one generation to another. It was because of his already existing reputation and experience that his word carried weight regarding the issue of authenticity of Rodenstock-sourced bottles! Tomas e (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- Exactly for this reason, that he has had so much experience with old wine and beyond it, as an auctioneer he had to have done a very detailed examination of all aspects of not just one bottle but other Rodenstock productions he ran into again and again, that the notion or suspicion of collusion, beyond just being duped has found life. Tasters of much lesser pedigree had growing suspicions, why and how come he did not? Has he ever fully explained his role in this travesty, and in the process shredded the worth of his expertise and opinion in the industry? This is very poorly treated in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.71.23.54 (talk) 15:38, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- Having read the book, I disagree about the statement regarding "a huge portion of his life's work". It's probably true that a significant portion of the very oldest (at least according to their labels, engravings or whatever) but still drinkable wines Broadbent has tasted were Rodenstock's. That would be the 150-200+ year old wines. His many tasting notes of, say, 50-100 year wines (which are very much more numerous) are on wines from other sources, such as dusty old wine cellars of the British aristocracy left from one generation to another. It was because of his already existing reputation and experience that his word carried weight regarding the issue of authenticity of Rodenstock-sourced bottles! Tomas e (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- You may wish to consult the article Hardy Rodenstock, but while the story contains many incriminating and eyebrow-raising aspects, you may wish to consult WP:LIBEL before you use wordings that imply criminal acts where no criminal court has ruled. Tomas e (talk) 10:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, he did. It needs to be incorporated into this article, but I'm not sure how to do it. That Rodenstock is guilty of fraud is not in doubt; the only question is whether Broadbent, who continued to defend him long after the fraud was exposed (literally, blank wine labels and fake corks in his basement), knew the wines were fake. I personally think that Broadbent had to have known, but professional ambition made him push that knowledge down. A huge portion of his life's work is dependent on Rodenstock's wines. 76.22.20.146 (talk) 08:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
It seems like the way the current article is written, we don't have much BLP problems. But this talk page has garnered some attention due to the 2008 conversation above about the most appropriate way to incorporate info from Benjamin Wallace's The Billionaire's Vinegar into the article. I suspect the most borderline offending BLP comment was by the anon above who commented on how Broadbent was presented in the book in a negative light. (I commented out this particular line so we could discuss this section without having it wholesale removed) As some people may know (and the article notes), Broadbent sued the publisher for defamation of character. He essentially won his case even though the book would remained unchanged in content everywhere but the UK. After reading the BLP policy, I don't see any red flags in the above discussion (only the one borderline comment) but I suppose it would be a game changer if Broadbent submitted an OTRS complaint. If that is the case, I wouldn't object to an OTRS removal. But the comments of established editors like User:Tomas e and User:Dwarf Kirlston are clearly not in offense of BLP and shouldn't be wholesale removed. AgneCheese/Wine 19:22, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
- Ultimately it's US law and not UK law that applies to WP content, so an out-of-court settlement in the UK doesn't automatically affect what can be included in Wikipedia. That said, I'm sure we can treat this article on Michael Broadbent in such a way that he doesn't have to complain about. Ben Wallace's book is quite readable (finished it a couple of weeks ago), and it in contains a lot of general narrative about the "fine old wine" (auction) market developed, and Broadbent's role in that. Tomas e (talk) 15:45, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
External links modified
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Deceased
editApologies Snickers2686 - I have no recollection of reverting you there. I can only assume that it was an accidental mis-click when browsing recent changes or something - I'll endeavour to be more careful, sorry for the inconvenience. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 15:12, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
- @Girth Summit: That's okay, it happens. No harm done. Have a nice day! Snickers2686 (talk)