Talk:Mennonite cuisine

Short description

Hi, The reasons why I chose the term "certain Christian communities" for the short description for the Mennonite cuisine page:

• it avoids redundancy ("Mennonite" is already in the article title);
• it helps define what "Mennonite" is, on the off-chance that the reader isn't completely familiar with the term; and,
• it more accurately describes the topic.

Why is it more accurete? As I interpret the article, this cuisine is neither common to all Mennonite communities, nor is it necessarily exclusive to Mennonites. So, saying "certain Christian communities" both keeps it from being tied to all Mennonites, and doesn't exclude non-Mennonites. (It can be interepreted as possibly excluding non-Christians, but hey, we're working within 40 characters here, so it isn't going to be perfect :-).

Regards, NapoliRoma (talk) 02:52, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

I moved this from my talk page. @NapoliRoma: Would you say "Culinary traditions of certain Asian communities" rather than "Culinary traditions of Japan" for Japanese cuisine? "Culinary traditions of certain European communities" rather than Cuisine originating from France French cuisine?

It's not certain communities, it's one ethnic tradition that has a religious origin, and primarily Russian Mennonites, although there is a bit of Swiss Mennonite content. The best short description would be "Culinary traditions of Mennonites". Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:43, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Would you say "Culinary traditions of certain Asian communities" rather than "Culinary traditions of Japan"

I wouldn't say "of certain Asian communities", because the article is specifically about Japan. I would try to avoid saying "Japan", as it's already in the title.

Looking at the lead, I think just "Regional and traditional foods" would be appropriate—leaving out "of Japan" entirely. The guiding precepts here, per WP:SDNOTDEF, are to avoid duplicating information that's already in the title, and to provide additional information to help clarify what the article is (or is not) about. (I appreciated the point Jonesey95 made in the earlier discussion you had initiated about it being useful to clarify that this is literally about food, not a figurative title of another kind of work.)

Culinary traditions of certain European communities" rather than Cuisine originating from France

Same as above. The subject is unambiguously about France; there is no nuance that might be helpful to note (unlike this article). I would say that just as with the Japan article, the only possible ambiguity would be, "Is this really about food, and not, say, a romance novel, soon to be a major motion picture?" So I'd again go with something like "Cooking traditions and practices", taken from the article lead.

It's not certain communities, it's one ethnic tradition that has a religious origin

It's true that both Japanese and French cuisine are no longer foods enjoyed by all Japanese/French people, and are definitely no longer unique to the Japanese or French. So I may be making too much of what caught my eye in the lead here:

the term "Mennonite cuisine" does not apply to all, or even most Mennonites today

Nor is the food necessarily unique to Mennonites

But... it seemed to me that, since once we'd said "Foods" we still had 30+ characters to play with, it'd be bonus value for the reader to see that the food was from, well, certain Christian communities, since that's exactly what the article says (per the lead and subsequent section titles), and I was allowing for the idea that not everyone would know the origins of the Mennonite culture. Short and informative, while retaining the most useful bit of clarity (that the article is actually about food).

Sorry to go on at length, but you've noted some interesting points I thought might be worth discussing. Regards, NapoliRoma (talk) 19:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Then you have a double standard. Let me explain. The cuisine of Northern Japan, Southern Japan the Tokyo, Kyoto region and rural central Japan are all very different. The article does not have headings for this, but it is clear if you read the article. The same goes for France where there are vast regional differences. It seems you prefer nationalistic terms to lump distinct regional communities. I do not see why that is not the same with this religious group. IN short, the term Japanese cuisine does not refer to all groups any more than French cuisine does to other. Also, Baptists are a certain Christian community, yet they are not discussed here. Nor are Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Pentecostals, etc. The term is too vague while "Mennonite" is precise. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:43, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough; this jibes with what I said above. ("It's true that...")

My key point was that although "Mennonite" is unquestionably precise, it's also already in the title, so it would be preferable not to repeat it in the SD, which led me to hunt for something to include instead that would convey additional useful information to the reader.--NapoliRoma (talk) 18:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect information on Swiss Mennonite cuisine

This statement: "Because they immigrated to North America much sooner than the Russian Mennonites, there are fewer identifiable dishes associated with the Swiss Mennonites or Pennsylvania Dutch." is astonishingly false for many reasons.

1. Some Swiss Mennonites did not immigrate to North America until the mid-1800's which is when the first Russian Mennonites started immigrating as well. An example would be the Swiss Mennonites who immigrated to Alsace and then to the mid-western US around the 1860's.
2. There are many identifiable dishes associated with the Swiss Mennonites. Whoopie pies, funnel cake, and shoo-fly pie being very notable examples. The Mennonite Community Cookbook mentioned later in the article is a very important and commonly used cookbook amongst Swiss Mennonites.
3. The terms "Swiss Mennonite" and "Pennsylvania Dutch" are not mutually exclusive. Pennsylvania Dutch refers to multiple Christian denominations of Germanic immigrants to Pennsylvania, not just the Mennonites. Pennsylvania Dutch cuisine also has its own Wikipedia article! Cuisine of the Pennsylvania Dutch

Nutkja (talk) 17:44, 26 February 2024 (UTC)