Talk:Maelor Saesneg

Requested move 1 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. The sources furnished appear to corroborate the nominator's argument that Maelor Saesneg is the WP:COMMONNAME in English, and appear to allay the concerns that were raised by the opposing party. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

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English Maelor → Maelor Saesneg – WP:COMMONNAME, Google Ngrams shows a long preference that "Maelor Saesneg" is used more in English than "English Maelor", therefore is the common name in English. WP:UE and USEENGLISH state to follow the common name, non-English derived names can be used like Île-de-France if they're the common name. DankJae 15:03, 1 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 22:57, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I think I'd probably disagree with this one. Historically a lot of reference works have tended to give both names; I've also seen "English Maelor" used alone, and looking at the dates I think the Google Ngrams result is probably heavily swayed by the digitisation of specific works such as issues of Archaeologia Cambrensis.

Incidentally the original 'English' name for the Maelor is actually Bromfield, as A H Dodd points out, but use of this name isn't exactly common! I note that the Maelor Gymraeg still doesn't have a separate article, so there might just be an argument to combine everything under "Maelor".Svejk74 (talk) 11:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Svejk74, If it helps, the regional archaeology trust,[1] council[2], RCAHMW[3] use the Welsh name, while the national environment agency uses both[4]. So I have seen "Maelor Saesneg" also used alone?

Bromfield only applied to Welsh Maelor, not English Maelor, which was shortened to "Maylor/Maelor". Considering the two Maelors have spent more time separate, a merge will not be easy, and that there are few sources for Welsh Maelor, is probably why it doesn't have an article. DankJae 11:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

@Svejk74, expanding it further.

• Google Scholar has 183 MS (13 since 2020) vs 54 EM (5 since 2020)
  • But recognise a lot is Archaeologia cambrensis, but excluding that you get 128 MS vs 43 EM, so still a majority for Maelor Saesneg.
• Oxford Academic has 41 MS vs 5 EM.

So clearly Maelor Saesneg, even among historical documents. DankJae 18:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Wales has been notified of this discussion. Natg 19 (talk) 23:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.