Talk:Lust for Life (Lana Del Rey album)

"Lust for Life" a single?

I changed the "Singles" section to "Promotion" because I wasn't sure "Lust for Life" was actually a single, but my edit was reverted. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:27, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

@Jennica: Thoughts? Eventually, we'll want "Singles" to be a subsection of "Promotion", assuming LDR promotes the album via TV appearances, etc, but what should the section be called for now? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

@Another Believer: - sorry I didn't see this. I guess it could stay as 'Promotion' for now. I think it'll be a single because it has a Weeknd feature. --Jennica✿ / ^talk 19:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, thanks. But thinking something will be a single is not the same as the track being released as a single. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I think 'Promotion' serves a lot of uses. You could add subsections on 'Singles' and 'Music videos', etc. because it encompasses a lot. --Aleccat 20:42, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

@Another Believer: - The Fader and [Billboard are both calling it a single. --Jennica✿ / ^talk 21:01, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Draft

Resolved

Extended content

Also, I'm not sure what happened to the previous discussions, since this page has been moved so many times, but I'd like to see this page moved back into the main space ASAP. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC) As I'm sure you know, a release date AND full tracklist need to be confirmed first per WP:FUTUREALBUM. Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:11, 21 April 2017 (UTC) Digital Distortion has a page but no exact release date, similar to Lana's. Daddy Issues has the same issue, as does Music Is the Weapon, Tha Carter V, Bachelor Party, The Baddest, Book of Ryan, Brendon Small's Galaktikon II, Coup de Grace, Cruel Winter, El Disco Duro, Electric Cafe, Eyvallah, The Forest Seasons, Freddy vs. Jason, Give Me Your Future, In Humanity, King Capital, No Way Out 2, The Queen Is Here, Say10, Stampede of the Disco Elephants, Street King Immortal, Supercalifragile, Take Me to the Truth, To Fall Out of Love To, and V. Point is, isn't it wrong to delete upcoming albums that are relevant (I checked WP:FUTUREALBUM, the criteria seems mostly to be independent coverage, which Lust for Life should pass, it was topic of speculation by the media only several months after Honeymoon's release, and still has mainstream media outlet attention), and have had, in this case, significant coverage by reliable sources? Only 1/3 of the WP:FUTUREALBUM criteria is release date. --Aleccat 03:07, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

History merge?

Resolved

Should there be a hist merge for Draft:Lust for Life (Lana Del Rey album)? This is the problem with moving content to the draft space instead of just redirecting within the main space. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:51, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

"Coachella – Woodstock in My Mind"

This Idolator article links to "Coachella – Woodstock in My Mind" on Spotify. I went ahead and redirected Coachella – Woodstock in My Mind to this article, but I assume we need a secondary reliable news source before adding this song to the track listing. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:42, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I also redirected Coachella: Woodstock in My Mind since the dash is not intuitive for searching. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:24, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Update: Someone removed the song from the track listing, so I redirected both of the aforementioned pages to Lana Del Rey. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:19, 15 May 2017 (UTC) List of songs recorded by Lana Del Rey. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:25, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Should "Coachella – Woodstock in My Mind" be mentioned if the song is not on the album? Are there sources saying the song is promoting the album? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:33, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

There are sources saying it appears on the album. Of course, I believe it's pure speculation, but it's a possibility. (Google search) --Aleccat 18:38, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, there is much confusion, which is why I don't think we should create "Coachella – Woodstock in My Mind" until details are confirmed. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:43, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2017

Add genre's: trip hop, trap, folk, dream pop 2607:FEA8:5B5F:F02C:F843:2D2B:14B3:966 (talk) 05:53, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

 Not done - Unsourced

Genre trolling

A user is trolling by constantly adding pop, rock, and hip hop under genres, and intentionally misinterpreting the Billboard source. "She revels in the absurdities of her persona, pushing the shtick toward ten out of ten: the classic rock references, the hip-hop affectation, the thinkpiece-bait lyrics, the patience-pushing run time." doesn't equal rock or hip hop. "Pop" is used too broadly in the article to be considered a part of the genre infobox. Can I have other editor input on the current genre? Because this seems too much like WP:OR, and it's ruining the article. --Aleccat 04:13, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid it's not trolling simply because you disagree. Billboard sufficiently states that the album contains "classic rock and hip-hop" songs. Several other trusted sources mentioning "pop" can easily be found. Billboard itself is a trusted source and this is the wording that is desired for describing album content. The hip-hop and rock references are not from that sentence you quoted to discredit the source. Billboard states that the album contains "luxurious classic rock duets" and "rock standards" and that the album contains Lana Del Rey's first "proper hip-hop features." There are many sources supporting the pop label as well (example here: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/reviews/lana-del-rey-lust-for-life-album-review-tracklist-features-the-weeknd-aap-rocky-a7852166.html). I've noticed this common trend of Lana Del Rey fans not wanting to include "pop" as a genre for her albums, but it is explicitly stated in sources this time around. Ilovetati91 04:26, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid that makes "pop" the only sourced genre, but do excuse me for removing it, as The Independent was not used as a source for it in the article. The Billboard source only says: "And stringing together sides C and D of this quadruple-vinyl epic, there's Lana's luxurious classic rock duets". That does not equal the album being a classic rock album. Surely individual songs from the album might belong to that genre, but it'd be WP:OR to say the album is a classic rock album. Several sources say the album has a hip hop aesthetic/affectation, does that mean the album is hip hop? No. We can include the album has "proper hip-hop features", but certainly not in genre. That's not how Wikipedia interprets sources at all. --Aleccat 20:39, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

When valid sources refer to various sections of albums as particular genres, Wikipedia assigns the consensus 2-4 for the infobox. In this case, that would be pop, rock, and hip-hop. I'd suggest waiting for the next batch of reviews to confirm this, but that wording is quite explicit. Ilovetati91 20:43, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Is there a Wikipedia policy for that, because I honestly could not find one. The wording to the listed sources is NOT explicit. I certainly would not be opposed to adding "pop" back, however. Aleccat 20:50, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

That's always what has been done in the past. I don't think pop by itself is comprehensive enough. Let's wait for more reviews/articles. Ilovetati91 21:01, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the past LDR albums have not done that. I do agree we should wait for more reviews and sources however. --Aleccat 22:04, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Wow. People super sensitive about the genre thing. Hadn't seen that on the wiki before. Defitely not trolling Brout8 (talk) 15:16, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Production

Please can we add Tim Larcombe to the 'Producers' list in the infobox? Sylvestermccoyfan7 (talk) 21:31, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Promotional singles

According to you, can Groupie Love stay in the infobox? The source ([1]) says that the song got sent to italian radio. Does this source make Groupie Love suitable to stay in the infobox? The source does not say that Groupie Love is available to buy Ikcir (talk) 20:18, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I've seen several sources call "Summer Bummer" and "Groupie Love" singles, because they were released together. Put both or put neither, I don't think that as a source for proving the song is a single is credible. --Aleccat 20:47, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Maybe both songs are promotional singles: in that case they couldn't stay in the infobox Ikcir (talk) 20:57, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I did a bit more research on the songs being classified as promotional singles, and this source explicitly calls "Summer Bummer", "Groupie Love", and "Coachella - Woodstock In My Mind" promotional singles. However, said source was published before "Groupie Love" was serviced to Italian radio. How would we interpret this? "Coachella - Woodstock In My Mind" and "Summer Bummer" are promotional singles and "Groupie Love" is official? --Aleccat 23:38, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

I usually work on italian wikipedia where a song is considered an official single if is available to buy. Maybe in english wikipedia this rule is different, but I've never seen songs to be added in the infobox only because they had got sent to radio. Ikcir (talk) 7:53, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

It was also a digital download. --Aleccat 07:56, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

yes, but those songs can be downloaded separately from the album? Ikcir (talk) 8:04, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, they were released together on July 12, which is why "Groupie Love" is likely the third official single, IMO. --Aleccat 08:12, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

In that case I think they could be condidered official singlesIkcir (talk) 8:27, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

A user has added again the song in the infobox; I never said that I'm sure that the song is an official single, anyway I've decided to not remove the song, for now. However, I fear that now the contents of the page has become inconsistent Ikcir (talk) 20:28, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

For now I think this will suffice, we're just going to have to find better sources. Aleccat 20:50, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

In the official del Rey's website, the release date of the singles "Love" and "Lust for Life" was showed and "Summer Bummer" and "Groupie Love" too. "Coachella..." didn't was showed. So, i think that just the first 4 songs are singles (Sorry my bad English. I'm from Portuguese Wiki). Raul Caarvalho (talk) 01:49, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

And now, why "Summer Bummer" and "Groupie Love" have been deleted from the infobox, without any discussion? Ikcir (talk) 10:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to apologize for doing so, but I genuinely couldn't find any sources listing them as singles and Lana Del Rey doesn't seem to be doing any sort of promo for these two, other than a few radio releases. Admittedly, I should have checked the talk page, so I really do apologize. It's a bit confusing considering there's now a music video for "White Mustang", which is neither a single nor a promotional single, yet it seems to have more promotion than "Summer Bummer" and "Groupie Love". If you'd like to revert my edits, go ahead. --Snowstormer ^{(T | C)} 12:39, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for giving an explanation. I won't revert the edits, for now, because I dislike those sources too. We have to check the sources in "Summer Bummer" page, in order to understand if it can be considered an official single, while I'm pretty sure that "Groupie Love" can't. If we decide that they aren't official singles we'll have to change also the informations in "Summer Bummer" and Lana Del Rey discography pages. Ikcir (talk) 12:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Okay but now both were serviced to radio in certain countries. So, by definition, how are they not official. Aleccat 13:12, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Also promotional singles get sent to radio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotional_recording#Promo_single) Ikcir (talk) 13:25, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Genre

In this page (http://www.rockol.it/recensioni-musicali/album/7272/lana-del-rey-lust-for-life?refresh_ce) Lust for Life is considered as a indie pop/baroque pop/dream pop album: I think it could be used as a source in the infobox. Ikcir (talk) 12:29, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

That source literally says none of those genres for the album. --Aleccat 12:38, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

"lei che da quel mix di baroque pop, dream pop e indie pop proprio non vuole uscire" Ikcir (talk) 12:41, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Translate is a b*tch, sorry. Yeah, okay, sounds like that's exactly what it says, might as well. --Aleccat 13:57, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

ok, now I add the genres Ikcir (talk) 14:02, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

This review (http://crackmagazine.net/article/music/lana-del-rey-lust-life/) ends with the sentence "Pop music, like the truck on the cover, is a means of escape, of empowerment." Does it make Lust for Life a pop album?--Ikcir (talk) 15:37, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/20-best-pop-albums-of-2017-w513516/lana-del-rey-lust-for-life-w513522 Another source where Lust for Life is considered a pop album: soon I'll add that genre in the infobox, if you do not agree, speak in this discussion. Ikcir (talk) 21:57, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

That source does not include the word "pop" in the section discussing the album. We can't OR. --Aleccat 11:07, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

But the title includes the word "pop"Ikcir (talk) 12:08, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

We can't use year-end lists as indicators of genre. They often use "pop" to mean popular rather than the genre. ilovetati91 (talk) 6:50, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

@Jimmio78:@Gentlecollapse6:@Ilovetati91:@Jjj1238:@Sergecross73:@Billiekhalidfan: I make a last attempt to add a genre in the infobox

• In Rolling Stone Lust for Life is is numbered among the 20 best pop albums of 2017 [2]. According to some users the list refers to "popular music" rather than pop, but Rolling Stone also makes year-end lists of R&B albums and R&B is a popular music's genre too. Furthermore year-end lists have been approved in wikiproject as sources for music genres [3].
• In italian website Rockol it's written "lei che da quel mix di baroque pop, dream pop e indie pop proprio non vuole uscire" ("she doesn't want to exit from that mix of baroque pop, dream pop and indie pop") [4]. English sources are preferred, but non-English sources may be included if few sources exist (WP:A/S, WP:RSUE)
• In Vulture's review of Norman Fucking Rockwell it's written: "graduating from the languid pop of 2012’s Born to Die to the slowcore textures of Ultraviolence and the glacial trap pop of Lust for Life." [5] We might use this review as source for trap and pop.
• Billboard says that Lust for Life's style is "new-age folk" ("So she went deeper into her own weird world, and somewhere between her third and fourth records -- the haunted jazz of 2015’s Honeymoon and the new-age folk of 2017’s Lust for Life").[6]. I already know that according to Gentlecollapse6 the artcle doesn't confirm neither new age nor folk, but it might mean "folk with new-age influences".

Blueberry72 (talk) 17:30, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

• I have no problem using the Rolling Stone source for pop. The context present doesn’t give any indication that they’re referring to “music that is popular” rather than “pop music” the style. There aren’t any crazy outliers like, let’s say Slipknot (band) or Wu-Tang Clan that fall outside of the realm of pop music, nor does it strike me as particularly controversial to call an album like this “pop”. Sergecross73 msg me 18:54, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Summer Bummer

Hi, why someone erase the information about Summer Bummer as the third single from the album? it was launched in england, italy and other european countries as the third single!

http://web.archive.org/web/20170806154943/http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/playlist

Please add as a single

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaykoT (talk • contribs) 07:37, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure that this source confirms that "Summer Bummer" is a commercial single rather than a promotional single. However, we should not remove informations without justifying the modification.Ikcir (talk) 10:26, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Radiohead lawsuit?

Should we add a section about the copyright infringement lawsuit filed by Radiohead because of a song on this album? https://www.avclub.com/radiohead-sues-lana-del-rey-for-allegedly-ripping-off-1821856310 Javathunderman (talk) 19:05, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Pop record

Ok, @Ilovetati91:, let's talk; why this source [7] shouldn't be used for genres? How can we decide when pop means pop and when it means "popular"? Blueberry72 (talk) 20:22, 6 May 2019 (UTC)