Talk:List of video games with LGBT characters/Archive 2

Listification / Tablification

Multiple editors during the AFD have mentioned that the article's current proseline state is not quite suitable for a list article, which is how it was originally split from the parent themes article. I'd like to start by pointing to the main hub at Lists of LGBT figures in fiction and myth. On one hand, I find List of LGBT characters in film to be to be lacking in detail. While it does note orientation of characters, there is no detail beyond that such as character reception or impact. List of LGBT characters in television and radio and List of LGBT characters in modern written fiction however introduce a Note column, which contains many notes that are similar to those found in this list.

I would recommend we follow the latter two as an example. Below are two suggested table formats. The first is by character, while the second is by game/series, as the article is currently organized by to some degree.

Character	Year Introduced	Developer	Series	First Appearance	Description	References
Bob	1999	Bob Inc.	Bobville, the Series	Bobville, the Beginning	Bob, the main character, is gay and married to Gary.	[1]
Gary	1999	Bob Inc.	Bobville, the Series	Bobville, the Beginning	Gary is gay and married to Bob.	[1]

Game or Series	Year Introduced	Developer	Character(s)	Description	References
Bobville, the Series	1999	Bob Inc.	Bob Gary	Bob (Main character) and Gary are gay, and married.	[1]

The first table fits the article and naming standards of the lists, while the second table fits the current organization a bit better. There's some content in this article that is closer to something like List of LGBT-related video games (Which doesn't exist) than a List of LGBT characters in video games (Redirect, former name of this article).

The AFD has closed, and nearly everyone said cleanup was needed, and many called for a format change. This is just meant to get a ball rolling and I'm completely open to other suggestions. -- ferret (talk) 15:07, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

• I definitely agree that a format change is necessary. I personally prefer the second one, as I don't think the series or first appearance is necessary to track. (Not to mention, at least currently, I don't believe many of the characters are recurring, or even from series.
• However, as you mentioned mentioned - the article is currently more structured as "Video games that have LGBT characters", than "LGBT characters in games". I do believe we either need to be listing the character first, to focus more on the character, or retitle the article accordingly. My vote: I prefer the simplicity of option 2, only with listing the character first, then the game entry. Sergecross73 msg me 15:19, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
  • These are definitely just examples. I came up with Series and First Appearance just playing in my sandbox. They could be combined into simply "Appearances" as well. -- ferret (talk) 15:25, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

I actually prefer prose for an article like this. Tables make the content harder to read and more difficult to add free-form text, in particular when entries are non-homogeneous, like in this list. I note that in the two table examples above, there's little room for the accompanying explanation that all items in the article currently have.

In any case, shouldn't we decide first what will be the inclusion criteria and overall structure for the cleanup that you fellows want to do? The grouping and fields of the list/prose sections/table should emerge from that. Diego (talk) 16:58, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

You've now rejected all inclusion criteria, and all suggestions for a reformatting. You've got give a little bit here, you know. Especially considering the AFD showed a consensus that some substantial reworking is necessary. Sergecross73 msg me 17:47, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Could you PLEASE comment on the ideas expressed, rather than another editor's behavior? BTW I was not going to participate in this thread, I only did it because ferret asked me to. Diego (talk) 18:02, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm not saying you didn't have a right to comment or something, I'm merely pointing out that you've actively opposed virtually every suggestion for change since the AFD discussion, while making zero suggestions for change yourself. You even seem to grumble when people remove unsourced junk entries. I'm just saying itd be nice if you weren't fighting change every step of the way. Sergecross73 msg me 18:30, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I'll reply at your talk page, this is off topic and best discussed at user_talk. Diego (talk) 19:09, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

• I guess option B does focus more on the game than the character, but it seems easier to navigate - if a game/series features several LGBT characters, they'll all be grouped together and only take up one spot in the list. Another option would be to not do a list at all, and instead have prose about the history of LGBT characters and their portrayal, while mentioning particularly noteworthy examples from different eras - this is what I as a reader would want, but perhaps it would be too much of a change from what the article currently is trying to do. I don't know. (note that I'm unlikely to work much if anything on this myself - I'm interested in the subject, but it's not the kind of article I'm interested in putting my WP time into)--IDV^talk 17:58, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

• If this is changed into a table, would there be a single giant table, or a table for each section? Would sections still be grouped by decade/year, or do we use the classification from the academic paper we have available? (Those are relevant questions either if we keep prose or we change it into table format). Diego (talk) 18:28, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

• If there was a "year" section to the table, it would eliminate the need for the decades separation we currently have, which is kind of awkward as is anyways, with there being a lot of non-standardized subsections for each decade currently... Sergecross73 msg me 18:32, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
• If character is not the primary sort, I would expect the year column to be primary sort, which would make decade sections become some what irrelevant. Additionally, we should be able to do this as a sortable table without issue, which also solves the issue. I just didn't go that far for samples. -- ferret (talk) 19:31, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Huge shoutout to @Daniel Carrero for taking on this effort. -- ferret (talk) 12:38, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! :) --Daniel Carrero (talk) 12:42, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Sorey and Mikleo situation- Tales of Zestiria

I found a small article on them being canon/homosexual on here, but recently when I came to look, it was gone. It was a perfectly explained article, but without source. I recently was able to find the source for every specific thing mentioned, but now there's an argument on whether it's too vague or not. I do agree some parts are kept vague (for example, Bandai who didn't clearly stated it but instead dropped hints and indirect statements), but some things are undeniable, in my opinion.

Tales of Zestiria features a male lead, Sorey, and his male best friend, Mikleo, who are strongly implied to be in love with each other. In the game's skit-style dialogue, the player can see that Sorey finds Mikleo attractive (the word in question being a "babe"). A later skit also finds Sorey and Mikleo confirming that "things like [love] come up" for them; however, there are no female characters that could potentially be love interests for either of them—the game very clearly shows that. In an interview with the scriptwriter, it is said that an "m/f romance wouldn't work for Sorey." Multiple in-game titles show that Sorey and Mikleo are of the utmost importance to each other; Mikleo has the character title "Soulmate" in Japanese (translated to "Peas in a Pod") and Hideo Baba, the brand manager and producer of the series, calls Mikleo Sorey's "one and only," another title in-game. Explicit confirmation is lacking, as Bandai Namco feels they cannot outright state it, but these implications are virtual confirmation.

This is the piece I'm talking about which got removed due to no sources. I gathered some links to multiple pages explaining these arguments. Some of it are tumblr blogs, yes I read the Wikipedia policy, but it is a translation of an interview with Hideo Baba, the scriptwriter from Tales of Zestiria. One of the links also provides a screenshot of something Hideo Baba said on the Bandai site, but the interview has been removed from the site. Also, the reason why Bandai can't outright state it is because homosexuality is still kind of taboo in Japan. Sales would drop, logically, thus this is most likely the reason why they kept it small. But, they still somehow made a homosexual (I'd call it skinny love) relationship work in a very delicate manner.

Official in game titles (if you have the game, you can find evidence of this too in the title section)- http://luzloshiv-lelei.tumblr.com/post/113736183965/compilation-of-mikleos-titles-that-seem-to-be Thing's like love come up (skit)- http://jeredu.tumblr.com/post/132778595277/messenger-of-love-skit-since-nobody-seems-to-have Sorey's idea of babe hunting- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMjSDEJLti0&feature=youtu.be&t=44m (skit starting from 44:00, Wicked Nekkid Wind) Official novel translation where Sorey calls Mikleo beautiful- https://talesofsymphoniac.tumblr.com/post/138842941142/its-been-a-week-since-i-finished-the-game-and-i Translation of the interview with Hideo Baba (interview should be on the Bandai official Japanese site)- http://kiraleshoot.tumblr.com/post/132078427863/interview-just-a-part-of-it-translation (part 1) http://kiraleshoot.tumblr.com/post/116222176378/so-i-shared-the-interviews-of-the-voice-actors (part 2) Hideo Baba stating Mikleo is Sorey's one and only (this was removed from the official Bandai site, but this post includes a screenshot of the official Japanese text)- http://minoath.tumblr.com/post/148142823525/that-interview-with-baba-in-case-people-need-the

Yes, it could be argued that this is vague, but a few things are undeniable. 1. The in game titles for Sorey and Mikleo. 2. Some of the linked skits (for example, Sorey calling Mikleo a babe and it's true that things like that (love) come up.. which Mikleo ends with but you've gotta be the last person we'd talk to about it.). 3. The official novel in which Sorey poetically rants about how beautiful Mikleo is, which doesn't exactly seem like something you'd think about a friend or family, especially not same sex. 4. Yes, this is translated by a tumblr blog, but I don't see why that's wrong. If you take a good look on the internet you can find more translations of the interview, and all of them exactly say a male/female relationship doesn't work for Sorey. Baba also stated that there is romance in the series which is not a m/f relationship, which makes clear Sorey is not asexual either, which leaves him homosexual, if you look at the many hints and statements dropped. Mikleonly (talk) 13:30, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

This is all original research and not acceptable sourcing on Wikipedia. You need a third party reliable source (something like you'd see at WP:VG/S websites like IGN or Eurogamer) that directly states the LGBT aspect. None of this "Well character X said character Y was cute" nonsense. I'm talking "Staff Writer at IGN noted Sorey and Mikleo was a good example of a homosexual relationship in JRPGs" or something of that nature. It needs to be directly stated, or it does not belong on the list. Sergecross73 msg me 13:34, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Shouldn't the interview with the game's producer Hideo Baba be considered an acceptable sourcing? The person who helped write/produce the game would seemingly be a higher and more trustworthy source than IGN or Eurogamer. There's an article on LGBTQ game archive here (https://lgbtqgamearchive.com/2017/02/11/sorey-and-mikleo-in-tales-of-zestiria/) that cites the Baba interview that mentions the LGBT relationship. Hiigara129 (talk) 08:50, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2017

I'd like to make several additions to the list, starting from several characters from DanganRonpa V3. Ziodyne (talk) 05:32, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. SparklingPessimist ^{Scream at me!} 05:59, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Very well. Here are my additions:

The protagonist, Shuichi Saihara is heavily implied to be bisexual.

1) He is fine with accompanying both female and male characters during the Love Suite Events.

2) Notably, he consents to being in a romantic relationship with K1-B0 (a robot who identifies as male and should also be added to this list). He also expresses disappointment when Kokichi leaves during his own Love Suit event. He does not consent to engaging in a romantic with Korekiyo, but he ::states that he "doesn't deny he's curious".

3) During one of his Free Time event with Kaito, he muses that his thoughts about his male best friend don't seem very platonic.

One of the characters, Kokichi is heavily implied to be homosexual.

1) He flirts with the protagonist Shuichi constantly, even going as far as to say he wants to steal his heart.

2) He flirts with other male characters as well, and has a negative reaction to seeing a half naked female classmate in chapter two.

Tenko is a confirmed lesbian. She has a rather over the top fondness for girls and dislikes men, but she truly loves one character in particular (Himiko).

K1-B0 outright admits to being in love with Shuichi during his love hotel sequence.

Ziodyne (talk) 04:50, 8 November 2017 (UTC)Ziodyne

Status on this potential change?

Ziodyne (talk)Ziodyne —Preceding undated comment added 00:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- ferret (talk) 00:11, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

The hotel events are unlockables in the game itself, what do you mean by "reliable source"? Can't we just link to the game's steam page? 86.120.200.29 (talk) 12:55, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2017

Change:

"a gay and lesbian murder mystery problem solving game for Apple Mac computers written in the HyperCard language, distributed on underground gay bulletin boards."

To:

"a murder mystery/problem solving game for Apple Mac computers written in the HyperCard language, distributed on underground lgbtq bulletin boards. The player assumed the role of a lesbian detective investigating a missing trans woman in the Castro neighborhoods of San Francisco." IAmAHorror (talk) 00:20, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Not done for now: The slash punctuation mark is deprecated in such contexts (although a well-placed hyphen or two might be helpful). "LGBTQ", which should be capitalized, was not commonly used in 1988, so it would be an anachronism to use it here. I agree that the current wording isn't ideal. If no one improves it in the meantime, I'll take another look after I've had time to read the cited source. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 16:08, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Adult game inclusion

Not sure how I feel about the inclusion of games such as Artificial Academy. These are 100% pure fan creation games. The characters themselves are only created via character creator, so it's not as if someone wrote them to be gay/straight or otherwise. I feel like this boarders on adding every fetish game under the sun. This list should probably only be about character specifically written to be LGBT. --Tarage (talk) 01:47, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

On second reading... I'm thinking maybe non-adult game creation should stay, such as the Sims. That is important enough to merit inclusion because so many games prevent same sex relationships. Artificial Academy however... The point is not to be inclusive, but to pander to fetishes. --Tarage (talk) 01:55, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm interested in discussing where can we draw the line. For example, wouldn't we want to include basically all yuri and yaoi games here, even if many are pandering to fetishes by definition? Some may have erotic content but also have stories. On the other hand, Artificial Academy doesn't have its own article so (regardless of any merits or lack thereof) maybe a point can be made that it's not notable enough to be in this list.

Artificial Academy is basically just a sex simulator, in that it has very little story and interaction besides a few options like "go to karaoke", "go to school" and "confess love" and has a detailed interface for sex things like choosing sex positions. This is unlike The Sims, in which there are lots of things to do, and while the game does include sex, it's pixelated and the game does not focus on it.

Apparently Kindred Spirits on the Roof (lesbian) and Coming Out on Top (gay) are two notable examples (I mean: they have stories and they have their own articles), but they do have some porn. I suppose these can be kept?

One possible plan B could be keeping List of yaoi games (current blue link), creating List of yuri games (current red link) and removing these games from List of video games with LGBT characters as redundant. I'm not advocating this, just saying it's a possibility that may or may not have its merits.

One of these days, I added True Love (1995) to the list. I think this one is worth mentioning because while it's a dating sim with heterosexual hentai images, you can get with a guy at the ending but there are no adult images with him, so it's not pandering to people who'd like to see gay sex, and it's not a yaoi game. Apparently, many adult and non-adult dating sims prevent same-sex relationships too.

FWIW, List of animation and graphic art works with LGBT characters has a few hentai titles here and there. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 18:36, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I think if it's genre defining or vital to the LGBT as a whole, then inclusion is fine. If it's a game who's purpose isn't porn, then it's fine. As soon as it's purpose becomes porn, it's not worth including. I'm actually in favor of deleting the 'list of yaoi games' because 90% of them are red links and it's not even valuable since most aren't even translated in English and that list is not even close to being comprehensive. --Tarage (talk) 18:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Do you have any objections to what I've said above? If not I'm going to start pruning in a day or so. --Tarage (talk) 21:49, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

I'd say purely adult games (I.e. no iota of a story or character development) should be out, as well as fan games with no significant coverage. Everything here should have degree of secondary coverage. I'd almost suggest that all entries most be notable and have their own article as well, but that would need a separate discussion. -- ferret (talk) 23:27, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree, which is why I'm probably gonna tag the BL list with a delete here soon. --Tarage (talk) 23:58, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

BL list? Nevermind, I see that's the name for the yaoi games list. -- ferret (talk) 00:07, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

It's a 'list' that is neither inclusive(Such a list would be pages long and hilarious to try to keep up to date) nor does it actually link to many articles besides a few. It's fan fluff and it has no purpose here other than perhaps to be a look up page for fans. Not something that belongs on Wikipedia. --Tarage (talk) 00:18, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

And I've nominated it, because it's not worth having. Feel free to jump in. --Tarage (talk) 19:45, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Unnamed/Minor Character inclusion

Another thing I've found while looking through the list: "An unnamed minor character". If the character doesn't even have a name... is it really worth including them? One or two throwaway lines don't seem like they matter. If we REALLY want to go down that road then you'd have to mention the infamous scene in FF7 with crossdressing and... I just don't feel like it's worthy of inclusion. This list should be a sign of how video games portray LGBT people, positive and negative. I don't feel like this "An unnamed minor character" is worth any introspection. --Tarage (talk) 01:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

I support removing some minor characters, including unnamed minor characters and characters whose existence consists of one or two throwaway lines. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:17, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Make sure to view this in the right lens. This is a list of video games with LGBT characters, not a list of LGBT characters. That said, minor throwaway characters may not make the bar, especially if there is a lack of secondary coverage. -- ferret (talk) 16:35, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Still, I hope the LGBT characters of each game get listed here whenever possible. When I was cleaning up the list, I found a few instances of text basically saying "This video game has LGBT characters!" that didn't explain further or mention the characters. I tried to fix this for multiple games, and I added "clarification needed" for other games. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 07:12, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on List of video games with LGBT characters. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://ask.fm/reverendanthony/answer/125850221128
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121127075545/http://www.gamefront.com/homosexuality-and-fallout-new-vegas-a-gay-marriage-made-in-gay-heaven/ to http://www.gamefront.com/homosexuality-and-fallout-new-vegas-a-gay-marriage-made-in-gay-heaven/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090721131757/http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/article/top-10-underrated-games-65303/2 to http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/article/top-10-underrated-games-65303/2
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/trek.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 08:51, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of video games with LGBT characters. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130424043717/http://gaygamer.net/2013/04/earthbound-and-the-first-gay-tony/ to http://gaygamer.net/2013/04/earthbound-and-the-first-gay-tony/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:04, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Metal Gear Series

Naked Snake sleeps with Kaz in Peace Walker, so we can assume that Naked Snake is bisexual — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.108.23.90 (talk) 18:52, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Danganronpa V3 and some other suggestions

Hi! I noticed you had several characters for Danganronpa 2, so I figured I'd bring up V3. I'm not that great at editing, so I figured I'd put it here to run it past people who are better at it than me. Sorry if I mess this up, I'm really bad at this.

In Danganronpa V3, there are several LGBT characters.

Tenko Chabashira - Tenko has an obvious crush on Himiko Yumeno, another girl, and even calls Himiko her soulmate in the back route of the Chapter 2 Class Trial and her ideal girl in the bonus mode. Also, in her official English profile, it states that women complimenting her will "make her heart aflutter", but if men were to give her the same compliments it would result in them "getting thrown across the room".

Shuichi Saihara - Shuichi is pretty implied to be bisexual, as during his love suite events, he is shown to be interested in any of the characters regardless of gender. Furthermore, in a free time event with Kaito, he states that "only Kaito could give me what I need" and then gets flustered and says he shouldn't be thinking about boys like that.

K1-B0 - Keebo is a robot and is genderless, and when Tenko asks him about it he says he has never really thought about his gender and doesn't really know his gender himself, although he refers to himself w/ he pronouns. It also is implied that he can fall for anyone regardless of gender, because he has a crush on Shuichi in the love suite mode.

Kokichi Oma - Kokichi admits during his free time events w/ Shuichi that he wants to steal his heart, and wants Shuichi to think about him constantly. He also calls Rantaro Amami "my dearest Rantaro"/"beloved Amami-chan" and keeps Angie's wax statue of him in his room.

Also, outside of Danganronpa, it's worth mentioning that in Night In The Woods, Jackie (Bea's friend) is missing, and she's a confirmed trans woman. Also, in Horizon Zero Dawn, Brageld is a gay man Aloy meets who is mourning the loss of his significant other.

Again, I'm really sorry if this was annoying or poorly written, I'm not used to doing this!! Iwillprobablyneverusethis (talk) 05:59, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Moderate spoilers: Tides of Numenera inclusion

• • • spoilers***

There is a questline around companion Tybir when you enter the Bloom about finding his former male lover, Auvigne. Near the end of the game in The Calm iirc you can find them both together.

I think Tybir is bisexual, but only because of random dialogue speaking about women, but not a lot explicit. Biotreek (talk) 09:06, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

TWD additions needed

The Walking Dead: The Final Season must be added. 2 characters at the very least: Clementine (can be a lesbian if player decides so), Violet as a romance option and a possible love interest for Clementine. Also, there should probably be Minerva who is off-screen as of episode 2 but she's in-game mentioned as a Violet girlfriend kidnapped by raiders. Fixmaster (talk) 04:41, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

The Walking Dead: A New Frontier also has the bisexual player character Javier Garcia and gay NPC Paul "Jesus" Monroe.--2A02:C7D:892B:3D00:7071:3C11:5F0F:6C5D (talk) 07:00, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Isabelle Animal Crossing

Im new to wikipedia, and was wondering if this would be a reliable source for Isabelle from Animal Crossing's sexuality. The author of that blog post is a professor of media. However, they source wikipedia, alongside some forum sources as well. Does this count as a reliable source? Bepvte (talk) 02:18, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

This archive has been discussed before but I'm unable to find the discussion right now. Will keep looking. One issue is that all four sources quoted are unreliable. Wiki itself is user-generated, so cannot be used. Wikia, tvtropes, etc, are all open Wiki-type sites as well, so cannot be used. -- ferret (talk) 02:29, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Here are the past discussions: here, which led to a very small discussion here, which finally led to a more indepth discussion here. Besides some concerns of circular reporting (I.e. they reported something reported on Wikipedia, then Wikipedia used them to source that fact, creating a closed circle), there were concerns about editorial control. I'd say we can't use it here. -- ferret (talk) 02:50, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2018

Add Tweek Tweak and Craig Tucker (ID both as gay) and that their relationship is a side mission in South Park: The Fractured But Whole Tashpaula (talk) 09:37, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 19:02, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Danganronpa characters

Why are there danganronpa characters? None of them, except for Teruteru and probably Mikan, are fully canonically confirmed to belong to LGBT. I think all of them should be deleted, or at least we need a source that will totally verify this information, like a developer's comments, but i don't think it even exists. MdaLUL (talk) 10:24, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

They've been tagged as needing citation for a long time now. I've removed it until someone can supply some. -- ferret (talk) 14:51, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Surely at least some of these ought to be restored? Quite a few of the characters from the second and third games unambiguously express same-sex interest. While I agree that Ibuki, Kaede, Himiko, Tsumugi, Rantaro, Miu and possibly Kiyotaka and Mondo ought to be omitted, the other characters previously included in this article pretty explicitly seek out romantic ties with members of the same sex, and I feel it would be odd to rule out the textual references made to that in this article. Frightvale (talk) 09:51, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Find some sources. Everything on Wikipedia must be verifiable. If no sources cover it, it may simply not be notable enough to mention at all. -- ferret (talk) 15:13, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2019

Please add the following to the table entry for the Fallout New Vegas franchise (developed by Obsidian). This is from confirmed player interaction with these NPCs (from canonical, personal, and other players who share their encounters/experience in social media like youtube).

1. A minor LGBTQ character is missing from the table and the story canon confirms this male NPC as gay. Major Knight, the NCR Quartermaster stationed at the Mojave Outpost is a closeted gay male character. If the player is male and has the Confirmed Bachelor perk, they will receive several unique dialog options with this character. The player can flirt with this NPC but is consistently turned down and nothing comes of said flirtation.

https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Knight_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)

2. Another LGBTQ character who is central to the main quest in New Vegas (but not mentioned in the table) is Benny. The player first meets this character in the intro cut scene where they're bound and watch as Benny fires a bullet point blank into their head. Then buries them in the desert leaving them for dead. This starts the Courier's main quest to track/find and potentially avenge their potential murderer. If the player's character is male, has the Confirmed Bachelor perk and a high enough Charisma skill, they player will receive the unique dialog invitation to sleep with Benny. If the player chose to do so, they can then opt to assassinate their would be murderer afterwards. Sources for this NPC being gay are directly from the New Vegas canon storyline and player/other player experiences shared on the web.

https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Benny 162.207.29.24 (talk) 16:44, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. (Unfortunately, Wikia is not considered a reliable source, since it is entirely user-generated content.) — Newslinger talk 13:23, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2019

Game - Roundabout (2014) Georgio Manos and Elizabeth Lesbian Throughout the game Georgio and Elizabeth develop a relationship and end up falling for each other Elystral (talk) 18:32, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- ferret (talk) 21:55, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 January 2019

To add to the list

Dr Jessica Kandel (Lesbian) in The Division (2016) asks you to search for her ex wife, https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Jessica_Kandel

Miranda Comay (Trans Woman) in Watch_Dogs 2 (2016) has part of the main story line about her transition and a religious group who leaked videos of her surgeries online, http://watchdogs.wikia.com/wiki/Miranda_Comay

Kai and Valmar (Gay Couple) in League of Legends make up two thirds of the body of the Darkin Varus after they unwittingly released him, https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/champion/varus/

Georgio Manos and Elizabeth (Lesbian Couple) in Roundabout (2014) fall in love over the course of the game, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout_(video_game)

Natali Kuroshenko and Roberta Williams (Lesbian Couple) and Andrew Dagyab (Gay) in Tacoma (2017), it's stated that Natali and Roberta had been married for about two years and Andrew can be found talking to his husband back home, https://tacoma.gamepedia.com/Natali_Kuroshenko https://tacoma.gamepedia.com/Roberta_Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6j9-ZAbkyc&feature=youtu.be&t=514 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6j9-ZAbkyc&feature=youtu.be&t=2071

Devrim Kay (Gay) in Destiny 2 (2017) can be heard multiple times talking about his husband Marc, https://www.destinypedia.com/Devrim_Kay https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-09-12-celebrating-devrim-kay-destinys-first-gay-character Elystral (talk) 20:28, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please cite Reliable Sources, also Wikipedia cannot be cited as a source. Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 03:41, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2019

To add to the list: Rin Tohsaka from Fate/stay night. She has a sex scene in Day 11 with Saber in which she says ""Ah... hm... I'm surprised... I didn't think I swung this way." Gameplay footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIrm9Dl-l8&t=724 (censored, but still NSFW) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.88.200.39 (talk) 04:54, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

It Came from the Desert

Should the game really be listed? I mean, I have seen the screenshot, and Jackie does use the term girlfriend but, as the description itself and a couple of other articles note, a straight woman referring to her female friends as "girlfriends" was a thing both back then and now. PanagiotisZois (talk) 16:51, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd remove it. Awful lot of speculation off a single word that has no further explanation or expansion in the game. -- ferret (talk) 17:05, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. Removed it. PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:34, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2019

The game Famicom Tantei Club Part II: Ushiro ni Tatsu Shōjo has a transgender woman side character who is a student at the high school frequently visited. She plays Tennis, and is only referred to by roles and not names. She is used for jokes. Evidence: https://imgur.com/a/j1u7XJN

The game Kril is a game about a transgender woman who is the titular character. Evidence: http://tessl.itch.io/kril

I suggest both of these games get added to the list 71.183.97.207 (talk) 20:08, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:11, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2019

2019 Curtesto (talk) 16:02, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. -- ferret (talk) 16:14, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Newfound Courage (2019)

Main character, Alex, is gay. The "love interest", Jake, is either gay or bi. There are at least 2 lesbian couples. Legowerewolf (talk) 03:23, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2019

Add Newfound Courage(2019) to the list of solo video games.

• Main character, Alex, is gay. The game is about him coming to terms with that in the midst of saving the world.
• Jake is gay.
• Marge and Heather are a lesbian couple.
• Em and her partner are lesbians.
• Julian and Scott, two background characters, may be a gay couple. Legowerewolf (talk) 03:30, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 03:47, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Y Was done (with sources) by another editor in the meantime! Hentheden (talk) 01:51, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Tales of Zestiria/Octopath Traveller

For Tales of Zestiria, it's problematic that Sorey and Mikleo ain't listed; Hideo Baba, then director of the "Tales of" series, had stated in an interview (by Side B-N, Namco's advertising mag) that Mikelo was Sorey's "One and Only". This is also a title given to the character in the game. A citation can be provided, unlike other games on this list, including the second game at hand. Further more, while I understand implication ain't as valuable as more solid pieces of evidence, it was apparently enough to land Fenrich in Disgaea 4 on the list. One can not look at Sorey and Mikleo's hot tub scene or end credits napping scene and not find a similar level of implication.

In Octopath Traveller, it's true that the character Primrose can dance to attract characters male and female into following her into battle. This is presumably in line a similar scenario w/ Ted from Valkyrie Chronicles; but the stark difference lies in lack of supporting dialogue to back up Primrose's case, and thus, nothing to suggest the character is doing more than weaponizing her attractiveness. In my understanding, that ain't enough to be considered more than speculative, and thus should not be on the list.

If there are no disagreements, then I ask for the edits to be made.

(O13Vanix (talk) 05:05, 11 April 2019 (UTC))

Pyro from Team Fortress 2

The player, Pyro from TF2 is described by Valve as having a unknown gender/origin and various characters either refer to Pyro as a male, female or just a "thing". The gender of the Pyro has been a discussion by fans for years (as early as 2008) and even Valve themselves have hinted/teased the community to Pyro's ambiguous gender. Therefore, shouldn't it be on the list? GlitchyM. (talk) 22:03, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Not without a direct statement of such. All there is is a mass of speculation around Valve's various hints or "unknowns or "is it even human". Either way, everything requires reliable secondary sourcing to prove. Do any sources call the character genderqueer? -- ferret (talk) 21:06, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Persona 5 Protagonist Addition

Please add to this list Ren Amamiya, aka Joker, the protagonist from 2017's Persona 5 as "Potentially gay or bisexual". Within the game, the player can have Ren outright state "I like men" when asked what kinds of girls he's interested in. Although this decision is non-binding (the player can still romance numerous female characters) and cannot otherwise be acted upon, it is nonetheless an explicit, textual expression of same-gender attraction. In addition, the dialogue options presented throughout the game never force the player is to have Ren indicate heterosexual attraction.

For confirmation, here are four separate accounts of the "I like men" element, three of which are photos: https://imgur.com/TDudOBF https://twitter.com/lesbianbateleur/status/1039331578328039424 https://twitter.com/noreigret/status/984579928019484673 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/835628-persona-5/75210663 BigBoss7 (talk) 04:47, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done please provide reliable sources for any requested changes. Alduin2000 (talk) 23:00, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 July 2019 - addition of two lesbian characters from Wasteland 2

Add Wasteland 2 with Hopi and Magee - a lesbian couple. Verifiable on Wasteland 2 wiki. Can provide screenshots of in-game conversations with characters if needed. 83.150.196.46 (talk) 12:43, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide a reliable, third-party source. Wikis are not considered reliable because they are user-generated content (see WP:UGC). Alduin2000 (talk) 23:30, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

References

Remakes

How exactly should remakes be taken into consideration regarding LGBT characters? What I mean by that, what if a character was portayed as straight in the original game but queer in the remake. Like, maybe there is X game which is an RPG and has love interests in it. In the original game, one of these characters was a straight option, however, in the remake they are a bisexual one. If that is the case, should only the remake be included on the list, or both game? Also, how separate do the two games need to be? To clarify, say that we're talking about a Persona game which came out in 2015 having a straight love interest. However, one year after the game came out, it was ported to a different platform where said straight love interest became bisexual. If we include such a game on the list, should it be included in 2015, or 2016? This question was sparked from Catherine, since it appears twice on the list. --PanagiotisZois (talk) 22:49, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Authenticity of sources

I'm finding some worrying findings. How many of the sources that we use here to "validate" game / characters as queer actually take their info from Wikipedia itself? For example, the game The Dagger of Amon Ra, states that two women are in a secret love affair. This is cited with an article from Salon. However, as you can see, the article was written in 2014. By that point, this Wikipedia article had already a description saying that The Dagger of Amon Ra featured such representation. Who's to say that whoever wrote the Salon article didn't just look at this article and copypaste the info? Moreover, the LGBTQ Video Game Archive states that they weren't able to find any info to validate this whole "women in secret love affair" thing. --PanagiotisZois (talk) 14:17, 10 August 2019 (UTC)