Talk:List of ships sunk by Axis warships in Australian waters

Incorrect note

The article note does not match up with the external link provided -- saberwyn 01:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect count or doesn't reconcile?

The article has 36 ships listed. However the Australian Official history states:

With the sinking of Portmar in 1943, 18 ships of an aggregate of 79,608 gross tons were sunk by submarine attack on the Australian east coast, with fatal casualties of 465. The loss of Robert J. Walker brought these figures to 19 ships, 86,788 tons and 467 fatal casualties . The addition of eleven ships totalling 64,196 tons sunk by submarine attack during the war elsewhere on the Australia Station, brought the total of ships so sunk on the Australia Station (as defined in 1939 ) during the 1939-45 war to 30, of a total tonnage of 150,984 gross tons. The fatal casualties in these 30 ships were 654, of whom some 200 were Australian merchant seamen.

The note attached to this states:

The ships sunk on the Australia Station by submarine attack during the 1939-45 war were : in Eastern Australian coastal waters : Iron Chieftain, Iron Crown, Guatemala, George S . Livanos, Coast Farmer, William Dawes, Dureenbee, Kalingo, Iron Knight, Starr King, Recina, Kowarra , Lydia M. Childs, Limerick, Wollongbar, Fingal, Centaur, Portmar, Robert J. Walker. Elsewhere on the Australia Station : John Adams, Chloe, TJinegara, Samuel Gompers, Aludra, Deimos, Mamutu, Peter Sylvester, Stanvac Manila, Nam Yong, Siantar .

Gill, G Herman (1968). "19: Submarine's Swansong". Official Histories – Second World War: Volume II – Royal Australian Navy, 1942–1945 (pdf). Australian War Memorial. pp. page 557. Retrieved 2008-02-05. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help); External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help) Hence I am tagging this article for references for each ship not on this list. --Matilda ^talk 22:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• Not quite sure what to do about the Kuttabul - doesn't rate in the Official History list - is it perhaps not a "ship"? --Matilda ^talk 23:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

• Those ships are all in the link provided in the introductory paragraph (very poor form I know - this was one of my earlier articles). I'll double check everything, but from memory when I spun this article off from Axis naval activity in Australian waters I was convinced that the listing David Stevens developed in 2005 was better than that used in the official history. David Stevens' occupies a senior position with the Navy's Seapower Centre and the author of several major works on Australian naval history, specialising in submarine warfare in Australian waters, so if I correctly understood his listing of the results of Japanese submarine cruises in Australian waters it should be considered a better source than the official history. I suspect that the problem is the definition of 'Australian waters' which has been used by the various authors - including myself (eg, whether Christmas and the Cocos Islands were within the Australia Station). I included HMAS Kuttabul as there didn't seem to be any reason for Gill to have excluded it and Stevens' included it in his list. --Nick Dowling (talk) 11:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

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