Talk:List of longest managerial reigns in association football

Suggestions

David Jeffrey (17 years at Linfield), Stephen Baxter (16 years at Crusaders and still ongoing) and Roy Coyle (15 years at Linfield) should all be added to the list. 146.199.211.180 (talk) 22:15, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

@146.199.211.180

Charles Webb managed Brighton and Hove Albion from 1919 to 1947 - I can't find him on either list. 176.250.49.75 (talk) 10:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Criteria

Hi, can someone please specify the criteria for inclusion? I have several more Scottish managers ready to add, some of whom were about the same length of spell as Lucescu, should there be a minimum term length for inclusion e.g 10 years, or are you trying to keep the list to a certain length e.g top 20 (I'd suggest it could be made higher, I'm personally adding about 20 more and that's just from one country, I might look at others later. Also, there are others whose job spanned World War II - should only the official seasons count? This would affect other nations too of course (the Scottish League continued during World War I, so that doesn't come into it for my additions, but again this would be a factor in some from England and several other countries where football did officially stop). If I don't hear back tonight, I'll just add the debatable ones in the meantime for it to be reviewed. But I'd suggest something goes on the page itself to indicate how these matters are being counted. Thanks. Crowsus (talk) 23:39, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Crowsus. I think there needs to be a limit on a list like this otherwise it can get out of hand; I think it could be a limit of 50 as it is for the List of most expensive association football transfers, but I'd happily relent if somebody says 100! For war-time managers, I'd suggest to just go for it and add whoever you find. As an example, I've discovered George Kay was Liverpool manager from 1936-51, and obviously more than a third of his reign is during the war, but personally I'd say his reign is fully 15 years and would be included on the list as it stands. If it's an issue somebody raises, or if you think I'm wrong, it can easily be discussed, nothing's set in stone.
Could you let me know if any of those you have are secretary-managers? After doing some research this evening, I'm thinking this is something that could be an issue, and may even need a separate table altogether? ItsKesha (talk) 00:23, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply ItsKesha. I've added some just now and about the same on the way. Some may end up dropping out of an overall top 50 which sounds like a good maximum number to me. I'm aware of the secretary-manager thing pre WWII, they basically had an administrative job for life in some cases while the coaches came and went, similar to the way things still operate outside the UK in certain respects, although the GM/directeur sportif still tends to get the boot after 5 years or so if things aren't going great. I'll add them then look into it and add a label if I find that was the role - a few of these guys don't even have articles although definitely notable, I think each of them won the Scottish Cup in addition to the long term job. Crowsus (talk) 00:47, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

I've added a few more English managers, who probably fit the secretary criteria but don't seem to be listed as such - but have omitted a few for now who clearly were listed as secretary: George Ramsay, John Nicholson (football secretary), Frank Watt, Fred Everiss, Thomas H. McIntosh. Best idea might be to split the list in two, maybe pre- and post-WWII, to more fairly record these secretaries but give the more uncommon long-serving managers of the modern era a better comparison? 50 for both might be too much but I'm sure we'd find enough... Crowsus (talk) 06:17, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Crowsus That's a great idea about organising by pre-war and post-war, negates the need to be picky about who was and wasn't a secretary-manager, as there's probably no real way of knowing or finding out in most instances. And as you point out the role of manager now is so much different than how it was in those days, it would be daft to lump them all together. I think as long as there's some prose in the article to explain the need for having separate tables, it should be OK. ItsKesha (talk) 14:07, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks ItsKesha, I'll try to knock up a version of that tonight then. It spoils the existing opening paragraph a bit with Maley - but easy enough to say he leads the first list and Guy Roux the second. The only potential issue, I think, is with Bill Struth at Rangers whose spell goes well beyond the end of WWII, and from reading this article I'd probably say he was one of the earliest 'modern' managers, having taken over in 1920 when the secretary role was sort of falling out of fashion, and previously been the fitness trainer rather than an administrator. We can't really put him in both lists. I suppose the majority of his time was pre-war so he should probably go there, although that will inevitably annoy Rangers fans as he will still be behind the Celtic guy. Crowsus (talk) 22:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

What would your thoughts be on a separate table for international managers, Crowsus? Hugo Meisl, Joachim Löw, Óscar Tabárez, Jack Charlton, László Kubala, and there's a fair few you've added in both tables also. Just as secretary-managers were different to modern managers, international managers are very different also. Regarding Struth, I'd agree with his place being on the pre-war list, 14 of his 18 league titles came in that time. ItsKesha (talk) 14:34, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah i agree a separate list is appropriate and I'll get it sorted. Crowsus (talk) 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Dario Gradi

Hi. I believe Dario Gradi is missing from this list. He was in charge at Crewe from 1983-2007 (and again 2008 and 2009-2011) John arneVN (talk) 04:45, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi John arneVN, you're right he should be there and was originally, he must have been taken out by accident when others were being added. That's my fault and I'll get it fixed. If you check back by tomorrow, he'll be back on there. Crowsus (talk) 19:54, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Frank Schmidt

Frank Schmidt of 1. FC Heidenheim should be added to the list. He is coach since 2007. His new contract dates to 2027 and it looks like he will easily reach that because the club is realy loyal to him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Schmidt_(footballer) --2003:C8:6F23:FF00:A171:F8E3:CBD8:5C13 (talk) 17:27, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Done, added him — NickK (talk) 09:41, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Jomo Sono

I did not add him to the list because I don't have any start date, although he should definitely be here. According to this page he served already for 28 years, which will make him # 3. This is based on the start date of 1994 as reported by Transfermarkt and confirmed by another source. However, there is a source that he was already a coach in 1993 CAF Cup. According to the Wikipedia article he is a coach since 1983, according to Football Database it can be even 1982, and there is a source suggesting that he was indeed a coach back in 1982. Any of these dates would make him a # 1 ahead of Guy Roux, which would be a major change to this article. Interested in feedback on how to add him. Thanks — NickK (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Pinging a few of the most active editors of the article @Crowsus, ItsKesha, W like wiki, and NouveauSarfas: because this is an important enough change — NickK (talk) 21:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Looks to me like he has been manager of Cosmos since buying the club in 1983...?

Looks like we'd need to find a definitive start date. Wonder if there's any South African newspaper archives that could help out. I'm sure somebody at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football could give an opinion too if this was asked over there. NouveauSarfas (Talk page) 21:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to say 1994 based on the first source you link, plus this report from the BBC in 2002. I also found this article which suggests he was initially just a player for Jomo Cosmos until 1992. I think the confusion stems from the fact that he formed the club and has been the owner since 1982, plus the possibility of him being a player during this time-frame, and several articles and sources I've read indicate he may have also been coaching in the 1980's but there's nothing concrete. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:33, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @NickK: thank you for asking, but I'm sorry, I am not very fit in association football. My edits regarding more the structure of the table or the article. Good Luck anyway! --W like wiki ^{good to know} 22:26, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Amadeu Teixeira

Hello! Doesn't Amadeu Teixeira qualify for the list? You can find a ref here. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 08:36, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah it looks like he does. From what I remember, this article started with the UK then onto well known examples in Europe, it is by no means complete, there will be several prominent and eligible people who just haven't been included yet, and this looks like one of them. Crowsus (talk) 23:53, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

I think a much more reliable source would be needed. Also, are they even a professional club? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 13:50, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

The source that the guy sent is a prestigious source in Brazil, in addition there are articles about his long life training América in the main newspaper of the state of Amazonas (A Crítica), in the main sports newspaper in Brazil (Globo Esporte) and in the main vehicle Brazilian online news channel (G1), in addition to the government website for the city of Manaus (city where the club he trained). And yes, the club he coached was professional. América played in the championship of the state of Amazonas under his command from 1955 until 2008, and from 1963 the championship passed exclusively to professional clubs (that is, at least 45 years coaching the same club professionally), which is also evidenced by América for his command having played in the Copa do Brasil and the third Brazilian national division, which are also exclusively professional. Pascarelli Filho (talk) 06:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

The first source gives no years. The second source says "Between 1955 and 2006, he was in charge of the technical committee". The third source says "as president and coach for 53 years". This simply isn't good enough and I am removing him from the list. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2023 (UTC)