Talk:List of converts to Islam from Hinduism

Revision by Delibzr

Delibzr, Apparently we have been both warned, in that case it is better to first discuss what you consider the issue is with the article and why it needs to be changed. Personally I do not see how your revision makes any sense as it does not take into consideration the majority of the references. If you have an issue with a single reference or a few references, it doesn't mean that you have to delete the majority of the article. Can you therefore explain why you decided to delete the vast majority of the article? Xtremedood (talk) 17:11, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Just a note in relation to living people: it is not enough just to have a source showing that they were Muslim and are now Hindu. The source needs to show them self-identifying their change of faith. This is in line with how we deal with things under WP:BLPCAT. - Sitush (talk) 09:32, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Sitush already told, and xtremedood you are still edit warring and violating BLP. Delibzr (talk) 03:54, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

In general, please discuss contentious issues on the talk page in detail, so that other people can join in and contribute. If you start with a big edit war, people will be put off and they won't bother. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 12:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Delibrz, you are not justifying your edits. How am I violating BLP? Stay on topic. Xtremedood (talk) 08:14, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

By putting up unreliable rumors about living people, you are violating BLP. Delibzr (talk) 08:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

I already have removed what was brought up. What is a rumour? Do you have a source to verify it? You once again deleted my sourced edit. Where in this list [1] is there a BLP violation? Xtremedood (talk) 03:47, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

I believe following persons should be removed from the list.

"Karima Begum" - non notable mother of AR Rahman.
"Jayabaya" - Never converted, false entry.
"Monica (actress)" - Former Christian.
"Mamta Kulkarni" - Rumored to have married and converted, herself denied doing so.
"Malik Maqbul" - Repeated two times.
"Rekha Maruthiraj" - same as "Monica (actress)
"Wajih-ul-Mulk" - Non notable muzaffarid
"Saroj Khan" - Not a former Hindu.
Rahul^{Text me} 16:36, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

I think it may be fair to remove Karima Begum, due to notability issues, it should however be noted that she does have significant amount of stories about her (i.e. [2]). Perhaps a page should be made about her, but for the time being it may be fine to remove her. Jayabaya however is reported to have converted, according to the source. However due to the nature of the content I can say that it may be worth removing it as we may need a more solid source for the time being. As for Monica, it seems uncertain what her previous religion was from the source indicated. According to her wikipedia page "Monika’s father is Hindu and the mother is a Christian." As for Mamta Kulkarni, you need a source stating that, as the current sources are clear. As for Wajih-ul-Mulk, he seems notable enough. Saroj Khan herself says she was a former Hindu, see the source. Xtremedood (talk) 12:20, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

IP editor removed non-notable and dubious entries as described above by Rahuloof, but he also changed POV language a bit. Saroj Khan's name wasn't mentioned above, and I won't believe youtube to be reliable when video is not even hosted on a official channel. D4iNa4 (talk) 12:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Youtube videos may be used as legitimate sources, see here [3]. The publisher is Geo TV, which is well-known. Therefore Saroj Khan should stay. I have not read a wikipedia policy which requires a video be uploaded from the official channel (I'm not sure if Geo TV even has an official channel). The video itself is clearly published by Geo TV, which makes it good. Xtremedood (talk) 04:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Self admission and official source is what required most. None of your sources meet that criteria. Bring any self-admission rather than just some report of a rumor. Your video should be really acknowledged by the official website. Your youtube link contains a stolen video, see WP:LINKVIO. D4iNa4 (talk) 16:56, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I think you should get some more insight into what is allowed and not allowed by Wikipedia. As per Wikipedia's requirements, it does indeed meet the requirement for Saroj Khan. Look at the video, it is as clear as day and not a rumor. Also, for Wajih ul Mulk and Mamta Kulkarni, the sources are not videos and are verified. Xtremedood (talk) 10:56, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

A copyrights violating video hosted on unknown channel is not a source just like other unreliable sources that had followed rumors. You have also ignored the edit summaries of @TheRedPenOfDoom:, who has removed a bunch of other unreliable entries. Don't misrepresent the consensus. D4iNa4 (talk) 15:13, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Claims about living people, particularly claims about religious identification, require the highest level of sourcing AND per WP:BLPCAT require that sourcing to include the subjects self identification of religious affiliation: in this page it will require two identifications "I was X. I am now Y". While under rare circumstances, youtub videos may constitute reliable sources, illegally hosted pirate copies of copyright material do not qualify. You do not have anything close to consensus or policy compliant content/sourcing for introducing your edits.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

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May 2017

Please stop adding unreferenced or poorly referenced biographical content, especially if controversial, to articles or any other Wikipedia page, as you did at List of converts to Islam from Hinduism. Content of this nature could be regarded as defamatory and is in violation of Wikipedia policy. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Your disruptive edits on this article are being made in violation of WP:BLPCAT. Unless these people have stated the conversion, don't add them. Capitals00 (talk) 00:27, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

What are poor references there? All sources are from independent reliable sources. --Drivarum (talk) 04:15, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

None of the sources say that Hema Malini, AR Rahman converted to Islam from Hinduism, since they are WP:BLP they require self-verification. And your sources about Kamal Dasgupta are not saying that he converted from Hinduism. Misrepresenting sources to make "sourced content" is not justification. Capitals00 (talk) 05:06, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Are you kidding? Tell me which sources are not saying that they didn't convert from Hinduism? AR Rahman clearly stated here[4] about his conversion. Also in the book A.R. Rahman: The Spirit of Music By Nasreen Munni Kabir. For Hema Mailini, there are several sources citing his religious conversion which is very notable. These are the sources[5] published by India TV news, [6] by the New Indian Express, "Hema+Malini"+Dharmendra+convert+OR+islam+OR+hindu&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zhnMU53oHZaeyASMgYGwBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q="Hema Malini" Dharmendra convert OR islam OR hindu&f=false Helen: The Life and Times of an H-bomb By Jerry Pinto, [7] by DNA India etc. Regarding Kamal Dasgupta, have you even read the cited sources? The sources clearly states his conversion. Drivarum (talk) 05:59, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

"Yes, absolutely. My mother was a practising Hindu. She had always been spiritually inclined. We had Hindu religious images on the walls of the Habibullah Road house where we grew up. There was also an image of Mother Mary holding Jesus in Her arms and a photograph of the sacred sites of Mecca and Medina." Your source on Rehman. Since he doesn't mention he converted from Hinduism and you are misrepresenting them, I urge you to stop violating BLP and cease edit warring, next edit may lead to a block. D4iNa4 (talk) 06:13, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Did you miss What I understood by His words was that it is better to choose one path. The Sufi path spiritually lifted both my mother and me, and we felt it was the best path for us, so we embraced Sufi Islam ? Drivarum (talk) 06:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Rahman was atheist, not Hindu. And you are continuing to edit war and violate BLP, you will be blocked if you continued floating your incompetence. 06:34, 17 May 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by D4iNa4 (talk • contribs)

"Rahman was atheist" - do you have a source to establish that? He said "Yes, absolutely" when he was asked if he was spiritually inclined then how he can be an atheist? Drivarum (talk) 06:40, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

@Drivarum: "sprituality inclined" is not Hinduism either. It seems you created this account only for disruption. Don't edit war because WP:3RR exempts from reverting BLP violation. You will lose. Capitals00 (talk) 06:46, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Look at the sources where it is evident he has been a Hindu plus there are sources on VHP asking him for Ghar Wapsi which wont possible unless he is a Hindu. There is another source mention his conversion to Islam from Hinduism. It seems you created this account only for pushing your POV. I am not here to play with you so there is winning or loosing. I will request you to comment on the content instead of blindly accusing me. Drivarum (talk) 07:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Ghar Wapsi seems to be for anyone who is non-Hindu but Indian, "facilitated by Indian Hindu organizations Vishva Hindu Parishad and Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, to facilitate conversion of non-Hindus to Hinduism", says the article. Entire page of Ghar Wapsi is not saying that it is targeted only on Muslims or those who were previously Hindu like you are claiming. You are trying to edit war until others give up and agree with your WP:BLP violations, but its not going to happen. Capitals00 (talk) 07:14, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Please, stop your accusations now. You should stop putting your words on my mouth. I asked you to read the sources and not what Ghar wapsi means. These organizations asked Rahman to revert to Hinduism from Islam. Does that make sense? Drivarum (talk) 07:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Why don't you quote the pertinent passage/s that proves conversion, instead? El_C 07:30, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

@El C: I already did sir. Please, check: [8]. Drivarum (talk) 07:33, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Drivarum that's not same as Rahman saying. We need Rahman to confirm he was Hindu before. Sources confirm that atheist,[9] before. I believe its best to ignore you until you bring a source which is likely not possible, better if you just drop this matter. D4iNa4 (talk) 07:36, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Check this[10] clearly states "AR Rahman was born a Hindu and was named AS Dileep Kumar. However, he converted to Islam later." Drivarum (talk) 07:37, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Why are you not quoting the pertinent passage? El_C 08:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Please, check the interview of AR Rahman by Kamini Mathai [11]. This is an image and it clearly mentioned that. Drivarum (talk) 08:20, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Claim of an author without providing any sources, this is not qualifying as "self-admission". D4iNa4 (talk) 08:25, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

This is not just a "claim". It is excerpts of the interview. AR Rahman on many occasions admitted his spiritual affiliation. He belongs from a staunch Hindu family. Drivarum (talk) 09:19, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2021

Please add category [[Category:Hinduism-related lists]]

58.182.176.169 (talk) 21:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done RFZYNSPY ^talk 00:26, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Unexplained removal of sourced content

@Georgethedragonslayer:, you kept removing a large chunk of sourced material[12] from the article. Please tell the reason. --Bringtar (talk) 17:49, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree, that doesn't look fully justified. See also this comment by Black Kite.VR _talk 18:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

• I looked at the first 3 entries in the disputed content and I can see issues from both sides. The first 3 entries are Periyar Dasan, Harilal Gandhi and Yuvan Shankar Raja, and they all converted to Islam. While Dasan was born Hindu, it is not clear if he was still Hindu immediately before his conversion (he may have been Buddhist or atheist). Gandhi was Hindu before converting to Islam, but he converted back to Hinduism. Raja was Hindu before converting to Islam and I can't see any justification for removing that entry.VR _talk 20:08, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

The content should be added again SalamAlayka (talk) 21:06, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

@Vice regent:, not just these 3 but all entries are sufficiently backed by sources even including self-admission by the person such as this and many more. And if you look, at the articles like List of converts to Hinduism from Islam, or List of converts to Hinduism from Christianity, many of these entries do not even mention if they were actually Muslim or Christian before converting to Hinduism. --Bringtar (talk) 06:13, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

See my reply below. Azuredivay (talk) 07:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Found this on El C's talk page. The removal of the added entries was justified. The added entries are not supported by the sources. I don't think anyone except the OP will claim that "Jinnah family" converted from Hinduism to Islam by when we read this cited source. We can start reading with the first name "Abdullah (Periyar Dasan)" and the cited sources is this which made no mention of "Hindu". Then the next entry is "Abdulla Gandhi (Harilal Gandhi)" which cites "Gandhi, Rajmohan (2006), pp374" an untraceable source. Harilal Gandhi is largely noted for converting back to Hinduism,[13] thus he shouldn't be mentioned here. I also find the claims about Yuvan Shankar Raja to be misleading because no one removed this name from the article. There is problem with every removed entry that I checked. Editors above need to be mindful of WP:OR and don't use own experience to connect the dots unless supported by source. Azuredivay (talk) 06:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

If certain entries have problem as you have mentioned then why not removing these and keeping the rest of the entries after checking? No one has made any claims about Yuvan Shankar Raja, the claim I made earlier was about Dipika Kakar that was removed too along with bunch of several others. --Bringtar (talk) 06:24, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

According to my research, I haven't seen a valid entry myself wrt to your additions. The Times of India source you have cited above does not support Dipika Kakar converting from Hinduism to Islam. Azuredivay (talk) 07:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Please feel free to post your research here so it is more helpful to understand it. For Dipika Kakar's conversion from Hinduism, there are several other references like [14] and [15]. --Bringtar (talk) 07:44, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Same thing, these two sources you have cited above does not support Dipika Kakar converting from Hinduism to Islam, let alone self-admission. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 08:08, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

• I have made this Talk:List_of_converts_to_Islam_from_Hinduism/sandbox as a space to assist with the discussion so if any name is found to be unfitting it can be removed from there and the final list can be added then. --Bringtar (talk) 06:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I have removed some 'controversial' entries and added additional references to the list. Please see Talk:List_of_converts_to_Islam_from_Hinduism/sandbox and let me know if there is any problem. Thanks. --Bringtar (talk) 07:04, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

I see a bunch of entries there that violate BLP. You know that BLP violation is not allowed in any space on Wikipedia. Azuredivay (talk) 07:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Please point out the entries with the BLP violations. You can list it here for discussion. --Bringtar (talk) 07:38, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

A.R. Rahman, Dipika Kakar, Kuralarasan and others. A sandbox is created on userspace and not on the article's talk page. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 08:08, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Seriously? A.R. Rahman self-admitted his conversion from Hinduism to Islam[16]. --Bringtar (talk) 08:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

I have removed Kuralarasan from the list due to lack of self-admission. For Dipika Kakar's you can check my earlier post with the references. You mentioned only 3 names. Why removed the other names? --Bringtar (talk) 08:31, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

@Bringtar: I don't think "self admission" is required here. If a RS source "X converted to Y", and no other RS disputes it, then wikipedia can also list "X as a convert to Y". Correct me if I'm wrong.VR _talk 18:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

• Bringtar you bring up the point that "List of converts from X to Y" is not consistent and that a higher standard is being held at this list than those at List of converts to Hinduism from Islam, or List of converts to Hinduism from Christianity. Can the rest of the participants here agree that in order for someone to be on this list, should have been Hindu immediately before their conversion to Islam? Once we have consensus here, we can go to other articles and try to be consistent.VR _talk 18:01, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

• Another idea to resolve the above issue is to have a list called List of south Asian converts to Islam. This is because the disputed entries are clearly conversions to Islam, its not clear if they are conversions from Hinduism. The proposed list would meet WP:NLIST because conversion to Islam in south Asia subject of many RS([17][18][19][20]).VR _talk 18:01, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Vice regent, If you check the edit history of this particular page, you will see the 'religious warriors' have tried to keep the list here as short as possible citing various Wikipedia policies while expanding other lists with unverified claims but as an admin has been involved to fix it and keep the bias away from Wikipedia, I think we can set the rules same for each articles. If an article like List of south Asian converts to Islam can be created then this might solve the problem and seem to be a good solution to me. Thanks. --Bringtar (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

When those "various Wikipedia policies" supported the removal then they would apply even if a new article is created.That's why I disagree with the idea altogether because it would just create as many problems as this list is doing. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 04:57, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

• @El C: I have nominated this article for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of religious converts. The main article should reflect it. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 04:57, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for the ping, Georgethedragonslayer. I'd likely not have learned of this otherwise. El_C 14:37, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Sandbox moved

Hi, this sandbox shouldn't be in talkspace, so I've moved it to my own userspace - User:Black Kite/List of converts to Islam from Hinduism. Now clearly BLP applies in any namespace, so if there are any entries there that anyone believes have BLP issues (or are simply not well enough sourced), please remove them, but be sure to explain why here and in the edit summary, or they may be restored. When the list is stable, I will move it back to articlespace. Black Kite (talk) 09:14, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Consider rescoping this article

Are there sources that demonstrate "conversion to Islam from Hinduism" is a notable topic, and vice versa? If not then we should consider rescoping this topic. The topic of "conversion to Islam in south Asia" is a notable topic among RS ([21],[22],[23],[24], chapters 3 and 4 of this, chapter 5 of this etc). If there is agreement to rescope, we can move this article to List of converts to Islam in south Asia. The rescoping would also resolve debates over the religion of the person immediately before conversion to Islam.VR _talk 19:15, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Indeed a good suggestion based on your findings above. What is the procedure to create this type of article? Bringtar (talk) 15:30, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

@Bringtar: there are two possible ways. One is that I propose renaming this article to "List of converts to Islam in south Asia" and then we edit this list accordingly. If for some reason that doesn't work, I can just go ahead and create List of converts to Islam in south Asia and nominate this article for deletion.VR _talk 16:45, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

@Vice regent: I am not sure if deletion is required because there are similar articles for other religions and as you have pointed out that "conversion to Islam in south Asia" is a notable topic then you can please create a separate article about "Converts to Islam in south Asia" where rest of the entries beyond the scope of "List of converts to Islam from Hinduism" can be included and expanded. --Bringtar (talk) 17:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

@Bringtar:, I have created Draft:List of south Asian converts to Islam. You can start adding entries that meet that list's criteria: namely a convert to Islam (commonly accepted definition), and from south Asia (commonly accepted definition).VR _talk 05:45, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Bad idea because it will do no good and only invite creations of more WP:POVFORKs and WP:LISTCRUFTs like List of south Asian converts to Hinduism, List of south Asian converts to Christianity. What will happen to this actual article though? Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 06:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

There was strong consensus that these articles need to be treated on an individual basis. From my research, "conversion to Islam in south Asia" is a topic of scholarly attention, and I have seen similar scholarly attention given to "conversion to Christianity in south Asia". I have seen scholarly attention given to ghar wapsi (although I know that its a bit different from "conversion to Hinduism"). This article can stay as is, be redirected or be deleted.VR _talk 06:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

List of south Asian converts to Islam will also encourage creation of problematic lists like List of American converts to Islam, List of African converts to Islam and more. What you are trying to create already exists on List of converts to Islam and I see one editor above has already added the names there. According to that AfD you linked, I see that many participants agreed that small lists should be merged and it seems that this article should be better merged with List of converts to Islam#Hinduism, while List of converts to Hinduism from Islam can be merged to List of converts to Hinduism#Islam. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 06:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Why is List of American converts to Islam problematic? Conversion to Islam in U.S. prisons is already an article and we have additional coverage of American converts to Islam[25][26], so it meets WP:NLIST. And this list is only small because there have been mass deletions (see history). Also List of converts to Islam is organized by name, not by former religion.VR _talk 07:02, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Because when the content already exists elsewhere then there is no need to copy it and create a separate article unless the article is already too big. The potential names that can be added to List of American converts to Islam and List of south Asian converts to Islam already exists on List of converts to Islam which can be organized by religion just like List of converts to Christianity and List of converts to Hinduism is. Since the main lists of each religion are small enough not to exceed 100k bytes, I don't see a point in further content forking. It should be better reduced. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 07:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

By that logic List of Travancore-Cochin cricketers (only 8 entries) should be merged into Lists of Indian cricketers? Too big is not the only reason for splitting a list. In this case, it has to do with reorganization by cultural region, which the RS treat as a significant trait. Grouping by cultural region better satisfies WP:LISTPURP than simply listing by alphabetical order. Finally, List of converts to Islam is not exhaustive. For example, most entries at List of Sahabah could be added there, making that list fairly large.VR _talk 07:36, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes List of Travancore-Cochin cricketers is a good example of an unnecessary list that needs to be avoided. It would be WP:OR to merge List of Sahabah with List of converts to Islam because we can't call them converts unless it was supported by a proper WP:HISTRS. This happens sometimes on this page too where some people happen to assume that all South Asian Muslims are converts to Islam from Hinduism. I would again note that WP:CFORK and WP:POVFORK are standard guidelines that have to be followed. There is no need to create a list when the aspect is already covered by a less unambiguous list. It is your choice whether you want group the list by region or alphabets but I have grouped List of converts to Islam by religion, thus making room for merging this list there. You can improve it as well. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 07:57, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

How is Draft:List of south Asian converts to Islam a WP:CFORK? What is it a WP:CFORK of? VR _talk 08:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Vice regent, thank you for starting the draft, I will try to improve it with more entries. Bringtar (talk) 08:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

List of south Asian converts to Islam would be a POVFORK of List of converts to Islam because "Instead of resolving that disagreement by consensus, another version of the article (or another article on the same subject) is created to be developed according to a particular point of view," must be avoided because "This second article is known as a "POV fork" of the first, and is inconsistent with policy: all facts and major points of view on a certain subject should be treated in one article." See WP:POVFORK. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 09:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Except List of south Asian converts to Islam is not the same subject as List of converts to Islam, it is a subtopic. Subtopics are not forks. I found a much better example. Consider that List of Nobel laureates contains all Nobel laureates. But we still have subtopics of that: List of Muslim Nobel laureates, List of Latin American Nobel laureates, List of black Nobel laureates etc. Some intersections are noteworthy enough to merit stand-alone articles.VR _talk 14:56, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Vice regent, Has anything changed yet? If not then pages on these topics need fixing, please. Bringtar (talk) 08:59, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

No. I still oppose this proposed WP:POVFORK. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 17:58, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Lists cannot, by their nature, be POVFORKS. What is being suggested here is a WP:SPINOUT. But they are generally done because of size concerns - since, according to this article, only nine notable people have ever converted from Hinduism to Islam, that's clearly not an issue. Since most converts from Hinduism to Islam would indeed be in South Asia, would List of converts to Islam in south Asia replace this article? That's a separate discussion. Black Kite (talk) 18:13, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

With "WP:POVFORK" I am pointing to the part where it says "Instead of resolving that disagreement by consensus, another version of the article (or another article on the same subject) is created to be developed according to a particular point of view."

The demand to create a "List of converts to Islam in south Asia" is about parking this highly problematic and refuted version somewhere on Wikipedia. That's why mention of "POVFORK" is relevant here. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 18:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

If entries aren't backed up by reliable sources they don't belong in a list, regardless of what it's called. But it's still not a POVFORK, it's a content dispute. Black Kite (talk) 19:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

All entries specially for biographies or living person should have at least one RS with self-confirmation for their conversation. Since this has been followed then why the entries cannot be added here? @Aman.kumar.goel as @Black Kite has pointed out, I do not see any "POVFORK" here. Bringtar (talk) 07:46, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

It seems that you are again repeating what you repeated 2 years ago that you are willing to follow the rule on WP:BLPCAT on those pages where conversions out of Hinduism are concerned[27] but you want to ignore that rule for this page. This is a text-book case of POV pushing. Capitals00 (talk) 08:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I have already specified above, that self-confirmation is required for BLP articles so what exactly you wanted to prove with that diff? The rule should be same for all the topics whereever it is applicable. If you think I made any specific mistake then feel free to inform me. Bringtar (talk) 19:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You want "self-confirmation for their conversation" for pages like this one but for pages outside conversion from Hinduism you agree with adding only self-confirmation from their religion to another religion. That's the double standard I am talking about. Capitals00 (talk) 06:56, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Okay, please show a diff where I added an entry without self-confirmation by a living person that is outside conversion from Hinduism? I will be more than happy to recifty. Also, if this was about me only then please use my user talk page or make a new section because this is not related to the topic being discussed here. Bringtar (talk) 07:21, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Got confused.

Hey Capitals00, you reverted an edit of mine saying that "Fails self admission" but I don't understand what does it mean. Can you guide me? 182.183.46.164 (talk) 14:04, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Recent reverts

This is regarding the recent reverts of my edits by @Capitals00. My contribution involved addition of two entries: 1. A. R. Rahman & 2. Maruthanayagam Pillai.

1. A. R. Rahman used to feature in this list until it was thought that self-confirmed sources are required. The reason provided for the revert was that Rahman did not say that he'd converted from Hinduism himself. However, I had cited his authorized biography, along with a specific quote, which should be considered a reliable and reputable source for this information, especially given the absence of conflicting information on the topic.
2. There are several sources discussing the conversion of Maruthanayagam Pillai (later Yusuf Khan). The source I cited: 'Yusuf Khan: The Rebel Commandant' by Samuel Charles Hill is reputed. The entry was removed citing the age of the source - 1914. It should be noted that Pillai died in 1764. While it is understandable that a source from over a 100 years ago might be outdated, the age of a source should not automatically discredit its validity, especially if it remains unchallenged and widely accepted within the academic community. The authority of the source should be considered. If the source is recognized as a reputable and reliable reference within the field, its inclusion should be justified based on its scholarly merit rather than its publication date. Thus, I'd say, we should consider evaluating the addition of Maruthanayagam Pillai to this list on the basis of merits of the supporting source. I'd urge other editors to see to the matter.

Indianite (talk) 10:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)