Talk:List of American Idol finalists

Pre-FLC Review

Oppose

• This is a list of contestants who appeared on the television show American Idol and placed in the top twelve. - Featured lists are discouraged to begin with This is a list of ____. Also, per WP:MOSBOLD, links should not be bolded.
• In all seven seasons, American Idol has held auditions in over 30 different cities, including San Juan, Puerto Rico. Season one was held in the summer, while every other season has been held in the spring-time. - why is Puerto Rico so special? It's a U.S. city, wouldn't New York City be special? (Just curious). Also, "spring-time"? How about just "spring."
  • PR is not an official U.S. city - is it? iMatthew (talk) 15:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
• Out of the 106 contestants listed, 21 of them were under the age of 20 while the age with the most contestants is 24. - confusing, first you talk about how many were under the age of 20 and then you say that 24 is the most common. I think it would be best to split these or add more after "the age of 20" and then transition to the common age.
• A total of 106 contestants have made it to the top twelve (or ten) of their seasons. Contestants are not permitted to apply for the show unless they are a U.S. citizen and do not have a previous record deal or talent management agreement. Finalists for the show have never been younger than 16 years of age, or older than 29 years of age. For the first auditions, American Idol travels to different cities in America. In all seven seasons, American Idol has held auditions in over 30 different cities, including San Juan, Puerto Rico. Season one was held in the summer, while every other season has been held in the spring-time. Out of the 106 contestants listed, 21 of them were under the age of 20 while the age with the most contestants is 24. - no source verifying this entire prose.
• There is constantly controversy concerning contestants during the show. - sounds like POV, how about There has been controversy concerning the contestants during the series tenure. (or something like that, since you are talking about the series as whole not just one show.
• In season one, Jim Verraros, an openly gay contestant, was told by FOX TV to remove all mentioned of his homosexuality from his online journal as producers "thought [he] was trying to gain more votes." - you mean mentions not mentioned.
• Clark also claimed to have an affair with Idol judge Paula Abdul, however an investigation later cleared Abdul of all charges. - how is having an affair with Abdul get her investigated? I also think this is irrelevant, you already stated that he was arrested and dq'd, no reason for this IMO.
• In season seven, it was revealed that Carly Smithson held a prior label record deal with MCA Records. Reports suggested that MCA spent over $2 million promoting Smithson's previous album which she made under the name Carly Hennessy. The album sold 378 copies, and is now available on iTunes. - so what? Was he disqualified or what?
• In season seven, it was revealed via Vote for the Worst, that David Hernandez had previously worked as a male stripper - you used "it was revealed" too much. Also what is the controversy over this?
• Carrie Underwood, season four winner, holds the record for the biggest-selling American Idol album, as more than six million copies were sold in the United States.[6] - its' weird how the paragraph goes from talking about controversy to how successful Carrie was. I think there should be a sentence saying "Overall, blah blah blah."
• Title: The title says contestants but overall wouldn't those who try out be contestants as well? Possibly rename to like "List of American Idol finalists" or something like that.
• The images are also very big, possibly reduce or remove one, just like I was told for List of celebrities involved with WrestleMania.
  • I talked to Scorpion and Matthewedwards via IRC, and they said it wasn't a problem. iMatthew (talk) 15:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
• Why don't you spell out the state? It doesn't hurt not to, but it would look better.
  • I think it might make the list messier. Also per the FL List of Survivor contestants.
• Should renamed the Finish column to Finished, doesn't make sense as "Finish"
• The Notes don't work, when you click them, they don't go to the prose as to where they are located.
  • They are not supposed to. The prose is supposed to go to the notes, not the other way around. iMatthew (talk) 15:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

--S_RX 15:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

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Insufficient amount of sources?

I saw a tag saying that more sources are needed. Is the amount of sources an issue, or shall the tag be removed? --George Ho (talk) 21:55, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Just Sam into List of American Idol finalists

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge on the grounds of independent notability of Just Sam. Klbrain (talk) 15:04, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

---

Unlike the other American Idol winners, Just Sam has done literally nothing of note since winning. I was unable to find a single reliable source for anything they did after winning. The only sources I could find were unreliable looking gossip blogs that said nothing of substance. WP:NMUSIC states that Musicians ...may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria...Has won first, second or third place in a major music competition. She's had three years to do anything at all post-Idol and hasn't released a single or an album. They haven't charted or starred in movies or TV shows. Literally nothing is known about them after the win.

This is a similar case to Talk:Angela Hacker#Merger proposal, where a winner of a singing competition had literally zero post-victory credits and was therefore merged/redirected to the show. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 01:47, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

• Pinging @ApprenticeFan:, @Afddiary:. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 01:49, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

*:Hey! I understand the argument. They have earned a historical achievement (in being the first openly LGBT+ winner of American Idol), but there's nothing else to their name; not only have they not released a single or an album, but they also aren't signed to a label, so the likelihood of them doing anything else noteworthy in music is slim. Don't get me wrong, either, because I really admire them as a person! It's just that I'm not sure if that is enough to warrant them having a standalone article when they're essentially living life as a private citizen now.

• It's unfortunate because I do still feel like there is a dearth of articles on noteworthy subjects in their demographic areas on Wikipedia, and I hate to see another one go. I'd be open to hearing a justification from someone who really wants the article to stay.

  On a side note, thanks for the notification, because I just realized that one of my larger edits was removed in vandalism about a year ago lol Afddiary (talk) 16:13, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

  Also, I apologize, but I just learned today that Just Sam goes by they/them pronouns. I corrected all pronouns in the article, and I apologize for using the wrong ones in my reply here! Afddiary (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Instagram is not considered a RS for something like that, but I've still changed my post accordingly. One citation dated only two days ago still refers to Just Sam as she/her, but it's possible due to Just Sam's obscurity that no mainstream sources have caught it yet. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:17, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

I've been mulling over this proposed merge for a few days now, and on second thought, I have changed my mind; I actually feel that Just Sam's article should stay. Even with the lack of recent information on their whereabouts and current career, I think placing 1st in one of the USA's most popular reality singing competitions - and being the first in the LGBT+ community to do so - is enough of an accomplishment to warrant them having an article of their own, even if it always remains relatively short and bereft of sources or updates.

According to Wikipedia:NMUSIC, musicians "may be notable if they meet at least one of [the] criteria." I'd choose to read that from a "glass half full" angle, wherein them winning American Idol ensures their notability and ensures that they meet enough guidelines. For what it's worth, I also think they meet the following criteria: "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself." Even if the sources are almost all from 2020, there are several of them.

And on second thought, I don't think Angela Hacker is a fair direct comparison, since Nashville Star had significantly less viewership, lasting power, and cultural significance than American Idol (even if AI's viewership/cultural significance are currently fading). The show ended in 2008. Afddiary (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Just Sam doesn't seem to meet WP:SUSTAINED though as there are literally no sources covering after the fact. Which for a show as wide in scope as Idol, is jarring. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I actually found three sources covering after the fact (and added them to the article under the "Post-Idol" section). They wouldn't be my first choice of website to go to, but they are something to work with, and not gossip blogs. Afddiary (talk) 00:11, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

• Ping @Hog Farm:, @Caldorwards4:, @Jax 0677:, @BrickMaster02:, @Hzh:, @Ss112:, @Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars:. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:27, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
• Keep, no merge Notability is not temporary.Additionally there is recent press:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2022-08-28/american-idol-just-sam-samantha-diaz-hospitalized-instagram

https://tasteofcountry.com/american-idol-singer-just-sam-is-no-longer-in-the-hospital-after-health-scare/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/american-idol-just-same-hospitalized-illness-samantha-diaz

https://people.com/music/american-idols-just-sam-is-in-the-hospital/ Also buying back masters from a label takes time and is difficult. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parrotlovers (talk • contribs) 15:24, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Four sources saying they're in the hospital. Not really WP:SIGCOV there. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

I guess as a sort of "update" – I've noticed that a separate user who was not part of this discussion deleted the notice at the top of the page re: the merge of Just Sam to this article. Their edit explanation basically agreed with the article's existence. I don't 100% agree with removing the notice without there being a definitive conclusion to the discussion here, but I strongly agree with their intention and reasoning. I also think that further affirms that the consensus strongly leans towards Just Sam having their own article. I agree with all the prior listed reasons from others regarding Just Sam attaining notability by simple virtue of winning American Idol, which, regardless of its current status or ratings (or regardless of Just Sam's unfortunately stalled career), is still one of the most influential TV shows in American culture. Even if an artist does nothing else after winning, being a winner of a show that influential and massive warrants them having their own article. Additionally, Just Sam's victory was noteworthy and unique based on their demographics, as no one with their identity has ever won the show before.

I don't have anything else to say on the topic – but my position on this is firm; the consensus agrees with my position, I haven't seen anyone else participate in this discussion agreeing that Just Sam's article should be uniquely merged unlike any other American Idol winners' articles (including some who have done even less with their post-Idol careers than Just Sam) despite this discussion having been up for months... and I hope this discussion is considered closed for the future. And for what it's worth, I'll also issue a vote of Strongly Oppose. Afddiary (talk) 17:27, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.