Talk:Life of Franz Liszt

Composers Project discussion

I've raised the format of this article as a topic on the Composers Project. --Kleinzach 07:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

First impressions

I just took a first look at your new biographical article. While in general I appreciate the idea of creating the separate article, I don't think that with this the problem regarding the articles size has actually been solved. Already at its present state the new article is rather large, and much is still missing. The chapter about Liszt's stay in Geneva is an incomplete stub, and there must be a chapter about the Thalberg encounter. Concerning the development of Liszt's relation with Marie d'Agoult, I stopped writing on it when in fall 1841 their first stay at Nonnenwerth ended. In 1842 there was a love affair with Charlotte von Hagn. As consequence, in November 1842 Liszt's liaison with Marie d'Agoult came to an end. (She took Charles de Saint-Beuve as new lover instead of Liszt.) When in summer 1843 they met at Nonnenwerth again, their relation was practically dead. Much came of this. Then there is the beginning of Liszt's acquaintance with Princess Carolyne von Sayn-Wittgenstein, of which nothing can be understood from your present version. The chapter about Liszt's stay in Rome (the 1860s) must be completed, the next chapter "Threefold life" must be rewritten, and the chapter about Liszt's last years and his dead must be revised.

As soon as all this will have been done you will have an article of more than 200 kB again, and persons will come, complaining about "a glacial deluge of an article that sent readers away screaming and tearing their hair in terror". From my own perspective, those kinds of readers are just lacking interest in Liszt. They want to read not much more than the nice stories about the Hungarian Liszt and the greatest virtuoso who ever lived. In other words, they don't want to learn a thing about Liszt. It is to be doubted that precisely this is the purpose of an encyclopaedia article. However, writing a good article of usual size about Liszt's life is certainly a task that nobody can solve. Unfortunately he had not yet had a chance of learning from Wikipedia how to manage a proper kind of his living.85.22.18.193 (talk) 08:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

A long article is not a problem in and of itself, the problem is an article poorly written and over-stuffed with (a) actually useless trivia and (b) useful and interesting information in the wrong place. I will at long last have some free time soon, and will attempt to revise this article so as to make it readable, but I also will attempt to keep as much information in it as possible. I'm bored with the nationality issue, by the way, so fear not. K. Lásztocska^talk 13:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Expressions like "over-stuffed with (a) actually useless trivia and (b) useful and interesting information in the wrong place" are rather strong words and completely lacking any reasonable contents besides. Perhaps this article might be of interst for you.80.144.52.220 (talk) 09:29, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps this policy might be of interst [sic] for you. Biruitorul ^Talk 17:59, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

If a person gives no better arguments than a thing like, "The article is bad because it is my opinion that it is bad!", he/she is certainly violating fundamental Wikipedia rules. For example, I'm thinking of WP:GOODFAITH.80.144.124.10 (talk) 09:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

No one is disputing the obvious fact that this article was written in good faith. It is not a violation of Wikipedia rules to point out that a certain article still falls well below the standards of quality we should hope to achieve. K. Lásztocska^talk 00:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Since this seems to be developing to a fruitless personal debate we should, perhaps, return to the article as main subject.85.22.23.126 (talk) 09:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but I am not making anything personal. Someone might be, but this time it is not me. K. Lásztocska^talk 15:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Very well. It is now your turn to give precise examples for the so-called "useless trivia" in the article.85.22.11.94 (talk) 10:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Needed extended

This article about the life of Franz Liszt is really good. I think it should be rated as one, though just one or two small things that I think should be changed to make it better. First of all, I think someone should put a little introduction paragraph of Liszt alongside an image. Make it similar to the introduction here. Secondly, we need to find more information for the sections about the Princess as well as the List in Geneva and Threefold life sections. I would do it myself, though I'm currently at school and am not getting much time to myself. Ross Rhodes (T C) ^Sign! 11:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I've just made a start on the introduction paragraph for the article, including having the picture that's also used on the Franz Liszt article put in. Please do help make it better. I also still think we need to expand parts like List in Geneva and Threefold life. Ross Rhodes (T C) ^Sign! 17:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I would have completed the article, and with pleasure, but there's still the not yet answered question regarding the article's size. Liszt's biography was in all parts a very complicated thing. Thus even an article with restriction to most impoartant aspects will be comparatively huge.85.22.126.108 (talk) 09:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd recommend breaking this article into subpages of Franz Liszt. That way length would not be a problem and it would no longer be different from all the other composers' articles. --Kleinzach 11:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

At moment I am occupied with the German Wikipedia Liszt. Of course there is a similar problem over there. The article has grown rather large, and a part of the biographical section (concerning the period from 1861 to 1886) must still be written. On the other hand there is a section about the "Neudeutsche Schule" ("New German School"). It was only put in because the German article about the "Neudeutsche Schule" is very poor. I'll later revise the article about the "Neudeutsche Schule" as well and can then take the section in the article about Liszt away. In the end there will be an article about Liszt's life and his works of about 150kB. Writing an article of smaller size which is not a misleading caricature seems to be impossible for me.

The situation is somewhat different at the English site due to an incredibly strong influence of a single author. Yes, you guessed it, it's Alan Walker again with his masterly style and perfectly balanced, objective views. ("Now our wonderful Liszt did this. Excellent! And then he did that. Absolutely great! And he did even pay his landlord's bill. Wow!! Imagine that!!!") In such situation, for reasons of credibility, it is to be feared that an English article about Liszt's life must be even longer, giving more details than a German one. So, my suggestion would be to wait a little bit until I'll have finished the job at the German site. It will take me about 4 - 6 weeks. I can then return to the English "Life of F. Liszt". In this case I'd ask you for some patience. As soon as the article is ready (it will be rather long) you may split or divide it just as you like it.85.22.22.245 (talk) 08:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

That would be great, thanks. I for one shall wait for you to complete what your doing. Ross Rhodes (T C) ^Sign! 09:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Whoever it is with the IP address 85.22.22.245; please do hurry to finish what you've started and help out here on the English Wikipedia. You seem like you know what you're doing. Feel free to ask me if you need any assistance. Ross Rhodes (T C) ^Sign! 20:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Some needed information to expand and improve the article

Hi, I've managed to use Google Translate to sort the German version of Liszt's life. This does mean however that there will be many mistakes throughout the translation, though it should be good enough to be able to make sense of it and improve the article. I can't do this myself due to busy private life at the moment. I should be able to start contributing properly on Friday the 7th. Please do use this information to expand the article. We need to make this as good as possible (and hopefully make it featured), and we do need more info for Liszt and Geneva and other sections of the article.

Here's the info I got translated on Google Translate —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ross Rhodes (talk • contribs) 03:19, 7 May 2009

Clarification

In the section Marie d'Agoult it says (near the beginning): During the whole winter of 1832–33, i.e., until the end of April 1833, he was involved in many social events

However, isn't winter December - February and spring March - May? George8211 (talk | contribs) 19:45, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Liszt and Haydn?

In the section Early life it is written that he personally knew Haydn. This is impossible as Haydn died 2 years before Liszt was born. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.70.186.10 (talk) 07:47, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

You misunderstood; the sentence refers to Franz's father, Adam Liszt (1776–1827) who was 32 years old when Haydn died. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:07, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

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Requested merge 12 September 2019

I propose that this article should be merge to Franz Liszt#Life — Punëtor i Rregullt5 ^{talk} 16:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

After more than 7 months of silence in this matter, it's clear that there is no appetite for this proposal. I'm going to remove the merge tag. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:33, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

MERGE, The merge tags on the two pages say this proposal dates from May 2020, so someone cares. I am amazed there are two articles covering the same topic. I have never seen a persons life split between "Name" and "Life of Name", so I am all for merging the two. Good luck Brunswicknic (talk) 11:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

The latest merge request was placed rather carelessly, without initiating a new discussion or contributing to an existing one. For background on the reasons for the split, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers/Archive 16#Life of Franz Liszt (2008). The obvious problem is the size. The fact remains that no crowds are gathering to demand a merge. IMO such a merge would face enormous difficulties. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:27, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

• Keep a readable version, so oppose merge, per just above. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• These are two awful articles. I certainly oppose merging them, but they they should really both be abolished and a new one written which reads less like an essay, is devoid of WP:OR, and is not full of irrelevant detail.--Smerus (talk) 14:43, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose merging per comments above - Aza24 (talk) 03:26, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

There is a new discussion at Talk:Franz Liszt#Requested merge. CrazyBoy826 04:05, 12 June 2020 (UTC)