Talk:Leonidas C. Dyer

Cover photo

I am removing the current cover photo with scratch and replaced with an edited photo without the scratch. Cmguy777 (talk) 02:07, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Leonidas C. Dyer
(without scratch)

Leonidas C. Dyer
(scratch)

NY Times

That 1923 article is quite something; I had the same reaction as you, and added more to the article about the extent of the filibuster and what it meant for other business. Also thought Overman's quote really told you something about the times - terrible! Not sure about my assertion that this was the first anti-lynching law of the 20th c. but think it was. Will look for a cite.Parkwells (talk) 13:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Review of article

Hi, Cmguy, glad to help. I need to look at it again. You did a good job of pointing out the context of Southern Democrats at the time and the power they had as a voting block of conservative whites. You may come across some other useful sources to add from the article on Lynching in the United States. Parkwells (talk) 11:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I can look for sources in the Lynching in the United States article. As far as I know, there has been no biography written on Rep. Dyer. I have only found one book on race riots (2007) that gives allot of detail on the Dyer Anti-Lynching Bill. The conservative Republican from Idaho I believe put a damper on Republican support for the bill in the Senate. Also, I never knew Rep. Dyer authored the Washington D.C. Anti-Usury law and the national Anti-Motor Vehicle Theft law. I found information on Rep. Dyer on Google news and book searches. Again, thanks for your interest and edits in the Dyer article. Cmguy777 (talk) 17:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

That's good that you're writing about him - he deserves notice.Parkwells (talk) 13:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reference Parkwells. I added a paragraph on the Dyer Anti-Lynching Bill in the Lynching in the United States article. I found two newspaper articles Anti-Lynching Bill Has Rough Road In The Senate (The Evening Independent) and Filibuster Kills Anti-Lynching Bill (The New York Times). The New York Times article gives really good detail how the Anti-Lynching Bill was defeated by the Southern block. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:06, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for adding a paragraph on him to the Lynching in the US - I didn't realize it was missing until after referring you to it; definitely belongs there. Then found it in the general Lynching article.Parkwells (talk) 13:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Good point on the Great Migration, Parkwells. I plan on putting some information from the newspaper articles. The filibuster lasted a week and Congress was not able to discuss or pass any other legislation. Cmguy777 (talk) 06:50, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Motivation

You did a good job of showing that Dyer was so horrified by the race riots in St. Louis and East St. Louis, together with the high rate of reported lynchings, that he chose to do something about it. Most admirable, including his campaign through the western states. Federal legislation was what African-American leaders had been asking for at least since the 1890s. There is research showing that the rate of lynchings went up in the latter 19th and early 20th c., at the time Southerners were re-establishing white supremacy through legislatures, Jim Crow laws, and new constitutions that disfranchised African Americans. There were also tensions from failures of cotton and the boll weevil infestation, and the beginning of the exodus of workers in the Great Migration. A good book on the Mississippi Delta (The Most Southern Place on Earth) traced the labor relations between planters and workers - the planters wanted African Americans available when they needed them as laborers, but didn't want to be responsible for extended employment, then they panicked when the African Americans started to leave, and tried to prevent their going. Similar reactions occurred in Florida, and some state governments tried to prevent northern businesses from recruiting in the South. The PA RR was going through massive expansion and hired something like 10,000 workers from Florida alone. Parkwells (talk) 13:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Dyer's ethnicity

Sen Overman stated the Dyer bill was "written by a negroe" in the New York Times article Filibuster Kills Anti-Lynching Bill. Could Rep. Dyer have had African American ethnicity? Was Sen. Overman stating that someone else, an African American, had written the bill other then Rep. Dyer?

Impossible to know, but all representatives had (and have) staff persons who generally do the work of research and writing of legislation, resolutions, responses to constituent mai, developing positions on legislation under consideration, preliminary negotiations with other reps, etc. Their staffs were smaller then than now. He may also have been helped by a NAACP representative, as the organization had been pushing for such legislation since the 19th century. That is immaterial to the article - it is considered his bill since he sponsored it. Overman appeared to be trying to discount the bill, as if its being written by a representative of the people who had suffered the most from lynchings made it less worthwhile.Parkwells (talk) 13:46, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Important article

I'm so glad that you wrote this article - it's another important reminder of what the historical situation was, and how important enforcement of constitutional rights is, as well as voting/the franchise.Parkwells (talk) 13:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Can I help you develop a "Did You Know" hook for it? These help attract readers to the article. We should do it soon, as it appears much of the main work is done, although we're still adding content. (an article is supposed to be nominated with a DYK within five days of completion. Parkwells (talk) 21:03, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey. That sounds good. I believe the next step is to get the article to GA, then go for FA. I am not sure how many people remember Rep. Dyer. I initially started with a Google search and noticed he tackled other issues including the Anti-Lynching bill. I found Rep. Dyer to be interesting, especially when he helped the railroad worker out of a 408% interest loan. I also admired his determination to get the Anti-Lynching bill passed in his 1923 tour of the West. In my opinion, Rep. Dyer was way ahead of his times. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:07, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I think you're right - his is a good story to know, inspiring.Parkwells (talk) 01:18, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Board or Borah?

I was trying to identify William Board, but can't find him. What did your source say? There was a William E. Borah who was a prominent Senator and politician from Idaho. It seems more likely that he would have figured in this account, as he may have influenced Republican voting on the bill in the Senate.Parkwells (talk) 13:45, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense. He was a state senator from Idaho. I am sure that is the same guy. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:09, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The source said Board. I will have to recheck. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:11, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The source says Board. Not sure if the author Marilyn K. Howard was correct. Maybe emailing the book editors (Walter C. Rucker & James N. Upton) could find out the answer. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Certainly makes more sense that it would be Borah. Not only was he conservative, but he may have not wanted federal interference in western lynchings of minorities - still occurrences of killings of ethnic Chinese and Mexicans, according to the main articles on lynching, as I recall. Maybe you can find some legislative history of discussions of the bill in the Senate at the time. Haven't gone deeply into that kind of thing myself.Parkwells (talk) 01:21, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Definitely Borah - I've found several sources and will add some to the article. He opposed it because of constitutionality issues.Parkwells (talk) 01:24, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I concur. Maybe there was a typo in the source book. Cmguy777 (talk) 05:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Political background

This article tells a lot about the background of the bill - [1], in the Republican National Platform of 1920. Parkwells (talk) 02:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure the link went to the article. Cmguy777 (talk) 05:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, here it is - NY Times -Ernest Harvier, "Political Effect of the Dyer Bill: Delay in Enacting Anti-Lynching Law Diverted Thousands of Negro Votes", New York Times, 9 July 1922. Parkwells (talk) 11:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Parkwells. I have this article. There is allot of good information on what was going on while the Dyer Bill was being debated. Cmguy777 (talk) 05:08, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Add more to article on bill

I realize some of the content of this article - the more details about the bill, constitutional objections, Republican platform, etc. probably also belongs in the Bill article. Will look at it more later. The Congressional Record on the 2005 apology had material entered by a Senator Craig that gave a history of Borah's stand, especially statements in the 1930s when the Costigan-Wagner bill was under consideration. It would likely be useful to put some of that in the Bill article, so people would understand what was the thinking of the time about state sovereignty, constitution, etc.Parkwells (talk) 11:59, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree. Cmguy777 (talk) 16:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Anti-lynching bill section segmented

I believe the Anti-Lynching Bill section can be segmented into four parts: Background; Bill introduction and debate; Filibuster; Aftermath. This is just a general suggestion. Possibly the section could be divided in other ways. I believe this would help the reader navigate through the section. Cmguy777 (talk) 16:21, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

That sounds good. Parkwells (talk) 00:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

How's this for a "Did You Know" hook? "... that Leonidas C. Dyer succeeded in getting his anti-lynching bill passed by the House of Representatives in January 1922 due to "insistent country-wide demand"?" Let people go to the article to read the sad news that the Senate didn't pass it.Parkwells (talk) 00:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

That sounds good. Cmguy777 (talk) 16:14, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to nominate it to ensure it's considered within the deadline, as much work has been done on this article.Parkwells (talk) 12:12, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for nomination, Parkwells. I segmented the Anti-lynching bill section into four segments. Cmguy777 (talk) 18:39, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

The article is vastly improved and informative. Thanks, Parkwells, for your valued help, research, and edits. I believe Rep. Dyer has been overlooked in history. Cmguy777 (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Anti-lynching bill

You've added a section that starts "Proponents of the bill believed..." I recommend keeping the "burning bodies" phrase only in the quote you have later in the article- lynching covers this for the earlier discussion section. Also, although the Southern whites got their power from having disfranchised the blacks, voting rights were not part of any consideration of the lynching bill, and the Congress had taken no action to correct that situation. It makes the article confusing to discuss the amendments in more detail, when the subject is people getting murdered. I had been trying to show how African Americans did not have any formal political power in the South, and may not have been clear enough. Will try to work more on this later, and move more to the Dyer Bill article.Parkwells (talk) 15:40, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Lynching and voting rights were a concern. Part of lynching included burning bodies. There was no rhyme or reason to lynching. I am not sure exactly how the gruesome lynching process worked. I believe the victim would be hanged, slowly burned, and shot. Not everything was cut and dry, basically just the whim of the white mob. The sign did read Congress debates lynching bill while black bodies are burning. Just putting in the constitution views of the proponents would be good. Cmguy777 (talk) 16:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Proponent paragraph  Fixed.

Article popularity

Thanks for everyone who has contributed to the article. The popularity of the article has spiked within the last few weeks. Here is the link Leonidas C. Dyer article statistics. Cmguy777 (talk) 23:23, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Black Americans in Congress

This Congressional site has an historical essay about the long absence of blacks from Congress, and includes content about Dyer's support of anti-lynching legislation, with quotes from his speeches. Good source.

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