Talk:Lebanon national football team/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 15:18, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:18, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Nehme1499 - Just for transparancy, I am also taking part in the WP:WikiCup, where you gain points for GAs and GA reviews. However, you can be assured I will not rush through this review. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:27, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski - Don't worry, I'm sure you will do a good job! Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Lee Vilenski - I have just gone through all the improvements we talked about. Two things:

1. Do you think that either "2006–2014: Failed qualifications and match-fixing" or "2006–2014: Post-2006 War" are viable titles for the section?
2. The stadium section should be controlled as it's the only part I edited without us agreeing on "specific" phrases.

Other than that, everything should be fine. What do you think? Nehme1499 (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Nehme1499 I think the first one is best, but either work, considering it meets what the article actually talks about.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy. Article looks good to me. I'll promote it. Good job. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:38, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria - Article is already at B class
• It contains copyright infringements - CopyVio is clean. I will check images later.
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). - No tags yet
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. - Stable article.

Links

• some dead references that need archiving. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:47, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done I've removed/fixed the dead references. Nehme1499 (talk) 17:22, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• I'm quite a stickler for uniform referencing styles. It doesn't matter which one you use, so long as you stick to it. I've run a script to keep all your dates uniform Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Ok, next time I'll be more careful. Is there a way of setting a default date system? When I autogenerate references the date format is always "yyyy-mm-dd" instead of "dmy". Nehme1499 (talk) 17:22, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I use [1] to autogen references, they are pretty good for dates. User:Ohconfucius/script/MOSNUM dates.js is also a script you can run on a page to do this for things you haven't even written. Highly recommended. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:06, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Prose

Just to let you know, I have requested for this article to be reviewed by the Guild of Copy Editors; I don't know if you would rather wait for them to complete the copyedit or begin the review anyway. Nehme1499 (talk) 15:33, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I'll work around that then. Just as an aside, it's usually good practice to get GOCE to copy-edit before nominating. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:35, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah I realized that once I had already done the request: next time I'll keep it in mind. Nehme1499 (talk) 15:36, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Not a problem (I can see you are new to the process). I should warn you that this article's biggest issue is probably that it suffers from WP:STATCRUFT. However, this seems to be super common, with other GAs like San Marino national football team having the same issue. I may have to mention this at WP:FOOTY. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:48, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I see, to what part(s) exactly are you referring to? Nehme1499 (talk) 16:03, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, things like the kit supplier. And the statistics for tournaments are all well and good, but I'd like to see prose, really. I'd want some text stating how the team does in the competitions, rather than just a table. There's no key for anything for the tables, which I'd need to see. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:45, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

As for the statistics, such as kit suppliers and managerial stats, I have mainly used the Croatia national football team article, which is listed as GA, as reference. For the tournament prose, there is an article called History of the Lebanon national football team which speaks just about that; I have removed it from the main article as I thought it would be too much clutter. As for the key, there is one at the beginning of the "Competitive record" section, I have however forgotten to add the red outline that represents tournaments played in Lebanon: I'll update that right now. Nehme1499 (talk) 17:28, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

 Done I've added an explanation for the red border outline. Nehme1499 (talk) 17:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Lede

• "The squad is under the global jurisdiction of FIFA, and is governed in Asia by the AFC." Jurisdiction? Is that really the word we would use? Simply use "governed by AFC in Asia, and FIFA worldwide" is fine to me Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I have been "inspired" by the Belgium national football team (FA) lede for this. I agree, governed is a better word.

ideal Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "Except for their qualification for the 2019 edition of the Asian Cup, Lebanon have never qualified for a major competition through the regular qualification process (although they hosted the 2000 Asian Cup)." - Turn this sentence the other way up. Say they haven't qualified, until 2019 Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

So literally switching the two phrases? "Lebanon have never qualified for a major competition through the regular qualification process (although they hosted the 2000 Asian Cup), except for their qualification for the 2019 edition of the Asian Cup."? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I was thinking more Until 2019, Lebanon had never qualified for a major competition through qualification (), however, they reached the main stages via qualification for the 2019 Asian Cup, or similar. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "Lebanon plays most of their home games at the Camille Chamoun Sports City Stadium in Beirut, and also plays at Saida International Stadium in Sidon and other stadiums throughout the country." - Re-word. Say that Camille is their main stadium, however they also play at other stadiums. This isn't an uncommon thing, as I know England play some games at Old Trafford, and Leeds, despite having Wembley. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

"Lebanon's main stadium is the Camille Chamoun Sports City Stadium in Beirut, however they also play at other stadiums such as the Saida International Stadium in Sidon". Is this ok? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, wording could be improved, but that's what I was thinking Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "Although their first FIFA-recognized game was played in 1940, Lebanon played a number of unofficial matches before then; the first was against the Romanian side T.A.C. in 1934." - Flip this as well. Say they had their first unofficial match in 1934, before their first match as a FIFA recognised country in 1940. As a rule of thumb, always best to do things in chronological order. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)7

"In 1934, Lebanon played their first unofficial match against the Romanian side T.A.C.; their first FIFA-recognized game, however, was played in 1940 against Mandatory Palestine."? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Even better would be to remove unofficial, and have two sentences. "In 1934, Lebanon played their first match against the Romanian side T.A.C., but was not ratified by FIFA. Lebanon's first FIFA-recognized game, however, was played in 1940 against Mandatory Palestine."? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "During their 2014 qualification campaign for the World Cup, Lebanon reached the final stage for the first time in its history thanks to a 2–1 victory against South Korea at home in 2011." - This sentence made it sound like they reached the finals, which they didn't. Strictly speaking, the playoff in this round is the final round of qualifying, so it doesn't make sense. I'd simply mention that they made it to the fourth round of qualifying for the first time, but failed to qualify for the 2014 FIFA World Cup by finished bottom of that group Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes I agree, I didn't know how to phrase it properly. "During their 2014 qualification campaign for the World Cup, Lebanon reached the fourth round of qualifying for the first time thanks to a 2–1 victory against South Korea at home in 2011, but failed to qualify for the 2014 FIFA World Cup by finishing bottom of that group".? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure it's complicated wording, but yes, that's pretty much what I was after Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• " Lebanon also competes in minor tournaments: the WAFF Championship, the Arab Nations Cup (where they finished third in the first edition as the host country) and the Pan Arab Games, where they finished third both times they hosted the games." - You don't need to premise this by saying minor tournaments. Simply say that Lebanon competes in these things. Then, mention that they have finished third at both the Arab Nations and Pan Arab Games; however, all three occassions were as hosts. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

"Lebanon also competes in the WAFF Championship, the Arab Nations Cup and the Pan Arab Games. They have finished third once at the Arab Nations and twice at the Pan Arab Games, in all three occasions as hosts." Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Good. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:10, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "Their home kit is primarily red and their away kit white, in reference to their national flag; the goalkeeper's kit is green" - Goalkeeper kits are rarely notable, especially that for ledes. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:18, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

True, no problem in removing it. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

• rest of lede looks good Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:18, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

History

• Good hatnote to main article! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:32, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• On 22 March 1933, Lebanese journalist Nassif Majdalani helped to form Lebanon's sports federation: the Lebanon Football Association.[3][4] It joined FIFA in 1935 and the Asian Football Confederation in 1964 - I can't read the sources provided, but is that all the info we have on the founding of the national team?! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:32, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Don't forget, we are talking about Lebanese football! It's already a miracle to be able to find resources at all. Yes, this is more or less all to be said on the foundations (there are small other details but nothing worth of notice). Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

It does seem like quite the oversight. Normally the FA of a country would cover this Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

One of the sources is the FA's official website itself. This is what's written: "Representatives of thirteen associations gathered at the house of Hussein Bek Sujan in the port city of Mina Al Hosn, which was the first "General Assembly" in the history of the game. [...] The Federation joined the International Federation in 1936 and the AFC in 1964. So yes, other than the location of the first assembly not much else is said. Also, it omits the information on Nassif Majdalani which I had to find elsewhere.

Well, I'd add the location then. Other than that, there's not much you can do. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "of the American University of Beirut 5–1" - As you use the abbreviation AUB later, you need to put this in brackets next to the name. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:35, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I did, but the copyeditor removed it. I will put it back. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Not sure why they did that. I assume they thought the team was never mentioned again. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• The unofficial matches are regarded as the national team's first - Expand. Clearly they are not regarded as the first by FIFA. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, they are "regarded as the national team's first" in an "unofficial" way. (Relatively) many sources cite "Al-Tak" or "T.A.C." as the national team's first game, with the 1940 game being the first official one. It isn't regarded as official also because T.A.C. is a club, not a national team. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I think that's what I'm getting at. If any of the sources are good, cite them as saying they deem this their first match. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Ok so, I have found this information on various "forum" websites such as koora. Obviously I can't put a forum as a reference, so I contacted the op of one of the forum pages (specifically, the one I linked) and he told me that he found the information from a book (the one I used to source the statement that it was the first match). As I don't have any way of accessing the book I only added it as a reference (without adding more information). Other forums and websites (such as RSSSF) say that the one against "Altak" (Al-TAC) is Lebanon's first match, but I imagine them getting the info from the forum I linked above. Basically, there is really only one source with a multitude of forums writing about it from one another. Nehme1499 (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

• The team also played unofficial games against top-level European clubs such as Dynamo Moscow, Leipzig, Spartak Trnava and Energia Flacara Ploiesti in 1957,[4] who played in the opening game of the Sports City Stadium. The match ended 1–0 to Lebanon thanks to a Joseph Abou Murad goal.[17] - You list three teams, but say Lebanon won 1-0. Against who? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Everything starting from "who played in the opening game of..." relates specifically to "Energia Flacara Ploiesti". Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

the sentence structure doesn't show this. I'd split the sentences earlier, so: games against top-level European clubs such as Dynamo Moscow, Leipzig, Spartak Trnava. Lebanon also played Energia Flacara Ploiesti in 1957,[4] who played in the opening game of the Sports City Stadium. The match ended 1–0 to Lebanon thanks to a Joseph Abou Murad goal.[17]

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• Paragraph From 19 to 27 October 1957 Lebanon hosted the second edition of the Pan Arab Games, and were drawn with Saudi Arabia, Syria and Jordan in the group stages.[18] After two 1-1 draws against Saudi Arabia and Syria, Lebanon defeated Jordan 6-0 thanks to two braces by Joseph Abu Murad and Mardek Chabarian and one goal each by Robert Shehada and Levon Altonian; this placed them first in their group. In the semifinals, Lebanon lost 4-2 to Tunisia. They finished in third place, however, since Morocco withdrew from the third-place match. - Needs extra sourcing. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I have used RSSSF as the source, who themself took the information from other sources. The main source they used is "Le Jour" (Beirut newspaper), but I feel it to be a bit lacking as a source (no dates or details). If you want, I can add it as a source. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Cite using any of the above. As a rule, any result needs to be sourced to somewhere, or it can't be a GA. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Source [18] in the first phrase is the same source used for the match results below. Should I reuse it? Nehme1499 (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:52, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• Under Nalbadian, Lebanon hosted the 1959 Mediterranean Games and were grouped with the amateur sides of Italy and Turkey. - Need to be a bit more specific that these were the amateur versions of Italy and Turkey, and that the nations had a professional side. This reads as though they were amateur nations. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:43, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't know exactly how to rephrase that. I think it's pretty clear this way, if you have a proposed phrase let me know. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

grouped with Italy (A), and Turkey (A). or similar. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:37, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

i did think about linking the Italian C national team article, but it's still not right. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "In 1963 Lebanon hosted the Arab Cup," change to "Lebanon hosted the 1963 Arab Cup". You don't need two wikilinks here. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:43, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• You should also mention this was the inaugural Arab Cup. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:47, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• This tied Lebanon's biggest win to date, a 7–1 victory against Saudi Arabia in 1961 - In the previous paragraph, you have the exact same scoreline, a 6-0 over Jordan... Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:43, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Apparently that result was wrongly written by RSSSF. It's supposed to be 6-3, I'll fix this.

Good. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• Probably best to wikilink the actual qualifying article 1996 AFC Asian Cup qualification. Plus, the team only lost once, at home to Kuwait in a 5-3, which seems notable. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:54, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• The scheduled meeting of Australia and Lebanon made Buddy Farah, an Australian player of Lebanese descent, declare his return to the national side - Should probably mention which side he went too... Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:57, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• "The campaign saw the absence of defender Youssef Mohamad, who reportedly had a disagreement with Lebanon assistant coach Adnan Meckdache in which he criticized the Lebanon Football Federation and the head coach.[43] Suspended by the federation, he was allowed to return if he apologized to the LFA and its national-team coach for the critical stance" - Not really about the team. Better suited to the main article on history. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:58, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• The title - 2006–2011: Decline is a bit poor. The prose doesn't really mention that they did poorly, just the same as before, that they have zero points in this competition, etc. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

To be fair the period between the early history of Lebanon (the inception, the first tournaments ecc...) and present day (qualification to the 2019 Asian Cup for the first time) is a bit underwhelming. Do you have another idea for the title? Because adding more information would just feel forced in this case. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

That period of time is only 5 years, which isn't a long time for a national side that hasn't accomplished anything, and arguably it's best time was during this period (it's WCQ run). I'd simply mention the qualifying run in the subsection title. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

• On 6 September, Lebanon came back from one goal down to defeat the United Arab Emirates 3–1; after UAE striker - Remove "after UAE". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:00, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• Were these matches just friendlies? Do they need to be made in this much detail? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:01, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• about 32,000 spectators - Soccerway says 32,000, so say 32,000. No need to be vague with the "about". Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:02, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• This whole section doesn't mention it's in the world cup qualfiers, which is important! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:07, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

It was mentioned in the previous paragraph. I agree though, I should try mentioning it in the section. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• The title - 2011–2014: Stagnation - doesn't make much sense, considering they did the best in their history at the world cup! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:07, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I used the failed attempt at qualification for the world cup as a "catalyst" for the "revival" in Lebanese football. Would you consider merging "decline", "stagnation" and "revival" into just "X" and "revival", with the world cup events going into revival? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, yes I would. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

What would you propose to name "X" (current Decline + Stagnation - WC2014 qualifying)? Nehme1499 (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Potentially, the 2013 Lebanese match fixing scandal, or the World Cup qualifiers are the most important parts of this part of the article. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:52, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

What if we temporarily just kept the year span without an actual "subtitle"? I can't think of anything to describe the years between 2006 and 2014 (both the match fixing scandal and the WC qualifiers happened during the latter stage of this interval). Also, in "Pre-Civil War" there is a short paragraph at the end about the 1980 Asian Cup qualifiers that happened during the war. Should we rename the section or just keep it as it is? Nehme1499 (talk) 18:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that would be much more preferable to a erroneous title. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:07, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• This paragraph - Against Iran, a first-half Roda Antar goal gave Lebanon the lead in Beirut to keep the Cedars' hope of scrapping through to Brazil alive - Puff and WP:NPOV violation. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:07, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

How would you consider rephrasing it to make it neutral? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Against Iran, a first-half Roda Antar goal gave Lebanon the lead in a match they were required to win to qualify for the2014 FIFA World Cup. Antar rose above the Iranian defense to head home a free kick from Mohammad Haidar in the 28th minute. They held onto the lead, and won 1-0. "defended well", "gave hope" are WP:WEASEL words in this context. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:45, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• At the end of the qualifications, Lebanon and China were tied for third place; China had scored one more goal, however, and went to Australia - They weren't tied then. This should read they were tied on points, and potentially goal difference. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:07, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

This has probably been phrased badly by the person who wrote it. I'll fix this. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Kit, colours and nickname

• What is T.A.C.? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:13, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Ok, this has occupied me for at least 2 weeks. Arabic sources write "التاك" (with the translitteration being "Altak" or, more appropriatelly, "Al-TAC"), while English sources write "T.A.C.". The point is that all that is know about this club is that it's Romanian and from Timișoara. Not much else is known; I can deduce that the team is CA Timișoara (regarded as CAT at the time) and assume that TAC is the abbreviation of "Timisoara Athletic Club" (English translation). This whole thing would, however, be original research and I just opted to leave T.A.C. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Could we simply say "During their first match in 1934..." and ignore all confusion in this part of the article? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:51, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that works. Nehme1499 (talk) 16:12, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• black shirt and white pants - Pants is not a worldwide phrase. Use shorts. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:13, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

By "pants" I mean long trousers (the ones Gábor Király famously used to wear). Should I simply change to trousers? Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:51, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• @Lee Vilenski: one thing I was thinking about, should we remove the kit history table as it's already included in the Kit history section of the History article? Nehme1499 (talk) 14:50, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 20:47, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Stadiums

• as these stadiums already have articles, they should be linked a bit differently. Instead of two subsections, this should be one section. A paragraph at the top stating that the national team plays it's home games in a few different stadiums. the next about the main stadium, but this should also mention when it was built, when it was first used by the national team, rather than information about the finals it's held, that's about the stadium, and not the national team. Then a final paragraph on any other stadia that the national side uses, and why they don't simply stay at Camille. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:32, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

OK, I'll try to work on this. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 21:25, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Rest of article

The rest of the article is a bit hard to review, as it's all stats based, however, here's a few notices.

• We mentioned the red outline before, but there is still no explination as to what that is in the article. Having it as a part of the key would be plenty. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Again, I have used the Belgian national team as a reference point for this. I would add the red outline in the key but the default white square with a red outline is slightly off-centered from the rest of the coloured squares and I can't find a way to fix that. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

That article is very good, I'll take a look at the template (I'm alright with templates), and see if I can add it. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

See {{Lebanon national football team at the Mediterranean Games record}}, where I've made a change to this. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:01, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

That works, I don't know why I didn't think of that before. Nehme1499 (talk) 16:16, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 21:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• Probably shouldn't link to squads that don't exist. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I prefered to keep it as someone might, potentially, find information about the squads in those tournaments and add Lebanon. As the link is "there" (it's not a redlink), I don't think that it's a problem to keep it. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Fine, no issues. I actually have more of an issue with a blue link with no information, than a correct WP:REDLINK. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:56, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Actually you have got a point. Either I link put "Squad" in the cell for every competition Lebanon has desputed or just put a "—" where the squad isn't available on Wikipedia. For the time being, I have put the competition squad pages on my watchlist and if/when they update them to include Lebanon I will remove "—" from the table and link to the squad page. Nehme1499 (talk) 16:16, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 21:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

• As of 24 December 2002;[112][113] results list Lebanon's goal tally first. - The final bit is a bit irrelevent, as wikipedia always mentions the subject first in results. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 21:38, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Notes & References

• As an aside, I prefer {{efn}} instead of the uppercase notes. This won't effect the GA (As it's a preference thing, and aestetically only at that), but I do think they look better. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree with you: I was looking for specifically this template but couldn't find it. I opted for what Belgium had done; I'll change it. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done Nehme1499 (talk) 21:36, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• I'm going to put this on hold until after the copyedit. A few things to note in the mean time - Generally unless a bit statement is made in the lede, you shouldn't reference this section. It should be a summary of everything else in the article. The lede in generally will need some work. It is the most important part of any article - This one does need a good read through - Although GOCE may help with that. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:07, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I will try to work on the lede; I was a bit unsure about references in the lede but now that you have cleared this up I will fix this. Nehme1499 (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
    • References in the lede are very common for stub articles, and generally warranted for short articles. However, as an article grows, these should be moved into the text, and the lede constructed as a summary. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:08, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
      •  Done I have cleaned the lede section by adding more information while also removing redundancies. Nehme1499 (talk) 15:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

• I also note that the sub-page History of the Lebanon national football team should probably have a different name. Perhaps Competitive History of the Lebanon national football team, to differentiate it from the history section here. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:07, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I would agree on the naming change, this isn't a major problem at the moment though. Nehme1499 (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

• There's also a claim here - "Radulovic also managed to maintain a 15 game unbeaten streak[B] spanning from 24 March 2016 to 11 October 2018,[81] winning 8 and drawing 7,[82] making Lebanon the second most unbeaten national team at that point after Spain." - This doesn't make a great deal of sense, and the source is completely unreliable. Spain had lost to Russia during the world cup; and even if not counting shootouts, they had lost in June 2016 regardless.[2] You'd have to source this correctly, or it should be removed, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:07, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Ok I admit that I was a bit reluctant in putting the claim and have no problem in removing it. (By the way by "most unbeaten team" I meant in terms of games played not timespan). Nehme1499 (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
    • The source doesn't give this information; and isn't reliable for this purpose. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:08, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
      • Ah I was thinking about another tweet I had previously put up where he showed a "ranking" showing the unbeaten streak in terms of matches played; Lebanon was second (the ranking was outdated however and I put a more recent tweet). I do agree with you on the fact that the source can't be considered reliable and I have contacted the tweeter to send me a source to his claims. For now the claim has been removed from the article. Nehme1499 (talk) 13:37, 18 December 2018 (UTC)