Talk:Lallans

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I assume at one point lallans was taken to include all varieties of Scots. The North East included. The quotes from the SND would seem to indicate that NE fowk also used it to refer to their own speech. [1]

• Abd. 1804 W. Tarras Poems 132:

My mither-gab ye’ll scantly ken’t, . . . Sic lallan’s o’ a codroch dint.

• Ags. 1880 J. E. Watt Poet. Sk. 126:

He tint the gate to speak braid Lallans .

• ne.Sc. 1922 P. Macgillivray Bog Myrtle 25:

Neen o’ ‘s now that ken the teen O’ Lallan Scots or Aiberdeen To kittle up.

• Bnff. 1958 Banffshire Jnl. (15 April):

It is said that if the Bible had been translated into Scots for the Scottish Church at an early date, Lallans to-day would be our national language, or at least in a much more vigorous state.

Similarly in inverness [2]

• Inv. 1865 J. Horne Poems 160:

I set me down, my Jamie, To write a rhyme in Lawlan plain.

I think the idea that lallans refers to south and central dialects as opposed to the Doric is more recent and has probably come about due to the general waning of speaking Scots and knowledge about Scots. Nowadays it's quite common for people to think of the local dialect and its words as peculiar to the area. As is often portayed in lists of local words where more often than not more than 90% are general Scots (spellings aside) thus the emphasis is now on local dialects as opposed to seeing the dialects as part of a whole. Doric was once used to refer to Scots dialects in general but now seems to be associated with the NE and by default lallans with the rest. 84.135.215.3 14:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

State Language?

'Scots was the state language of Scotland used for all government business' Is that really true?

The annals of the old Scottish parliament look to be written in English - albeit with a Scottish 'accent' and some unfamiliar spelling. And what exactly is meant by a 'state language' anyway?' Did it have legal status? And given the much larger role of the church in the past its brand of 'Scottish-english seems to have been predominat in that sphere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.7.219 (talk) 09:56, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Usage Quite Modern? 20th century?

The word Lallans as written seems to have been coined by Burns in 1786. - R. Burns Poems 214 "They..spak their thoughts in plain, braid Lallans."

But as late as 1947 we read: D. Young Plastic Scots 3 "As it is convenient to have some term of distinction for that part of Scottish literature which is written in Braid Scots or Anglic, to refer to it separately from Scots literature written in Gaelic, English, Latin, or any other tongue, I suggest ‘Lallans’, adopting the term of Robert Burns."

Thus the word Lallans doesn't appeaar to have enjoyed wide currency before the mid 20th century - rather like 'Doric' which also seems to have gained currency only in the 20th century and has a 'sort-of' Scots pedigree far more recent even than 'Lallans', according to the OED going back no earlier than 1870. Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.97.27 (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Not sure if you are but if quoting from this entry in the reference list, you conveniently disregard the eight other examples given for years between 1785 (not 1786) and 1946 (not 1947). The advocacy of a term does not necessarily imply it is not current. Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:09, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Indeed Mutt. And, as you will see from the dictionary quote below, it confirms that current usage is hardly 'traditional' but stems only from the 1940s. Earlier usage of 'Lallans' appears to be only an alternative way of spelling The Lowlands, and not as the name of the Lowlands dialect. Cassandra.

"2. Now gen. in pl. (sc. tongue, speech, etc.): the historic speech of Lowland Scotland, descended mainly from the Northern dialect of Anglo-Saxon, the speech recorded in this dictionary. Since c.1940 the name Lallans has been specif. applied by its exponents to the movement begun by Lewis Spence, Hugh McDiarmid and others to recreate and extend the range and vocabulary of Scots in literary usage"

You have a real tendency to say "indeed Mutt" while continuing to argue the very contrary to what is actually said in any source you latch on to. The def gives a general meaning, then a specific one applied by a certain grouping - that doesn't make the former disappear in a puff smoke. Then the examples, specifically for that full def (not the "alternative way of spelling The Lowlands" one, listed above it separately and with separate examples) are listed, dating all the way from 1785 to 1959. Can you really have such difficulty understanding the simple layout of dictionary entries? Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:03, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

The Scots Language Society

Unrelated to this article, I was looking for a definition of "Lallans" and used Google. This page was the top hit. The Scots Language Society was second.

Seeing it redlinked in §Magazine, and not being willing either to write even a stub for it or to remove a redlink (WP: some policy I don't remember the page for), I hyperlinked the redlink.

--Thnidu (talk) 04:11, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

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