Talk:Kidnapping into slavery in the United States
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Where did this name come from?
editThe article lacks any information about who coined the term “Reverse Underground Railroad” or determined its very precise dates (1780-1865). The article acknowledges that the RUR was not a network of “stations” and “conductors,” and that what we are dealing with here is really a series of crimes by people who usually had no association. The crimes did not target people who had been “passengers” on the Underground Railroad. Often they were carried out in the open, with cooperation from state and/or federal authorities. In other words, the Reverse Underground Railroad was not a railroad, it was not underground, it did not target fugitives from slavery, it was not a cooperative network like the Underground Railroad, and it did not reverse the actions of the Underground Railroad. Also there is no indication that anyone with expertise has ever used this term in the way it’s used here. So why is this a Wikipedia article? Can anyone explain? — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 19:57, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
- I don't think we know who coined the term. Maybe some reporter. I think the topic deserves an article, and I don't know a better term. You're wrong on one thing, which is that the RUR was open and that it was dealing with legal recovery of fugitive slaves. To the contrary, some men were capturing free blacks and manufacturing phony documents showing they were escaped slaves. Once taken to a slave state, their slave status is the default. No papers needed. Remember the black could not textify. There was a case of this that got published, my memory says in a pamphlet, from Saratoga Springs NY, wouldn't be hard to find.deisenbe (talk) 17:17, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- Check newspapers.com and you'll see that the first mention of this term in its current use is 1997, related to an investigation of the Crenshaw House, (aka Old Slave House) in Illinois by some hired researchers, one of whom later wrote a book about it using the same term. If I find time, I'll add it in; if not, the info is there if someone else wants to go for it. ABF992 (talk) 19:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- It's in the Baltimore Sun of April 3, 1955. deisenbe (talk) 22:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- Good catch. It's from an article on Patty Cannon. What I read there is not the complete three word phrase "Reverse Underground Railroad", but this: "Schoolchildren today still read about the Underground Railroad that helped escaping slaves travel from the South to Canada. Patty's operation was just the reverse. Her Underground Railroad was one way in the other direction." So yes, this could be the original idea for the phrase which was then picked up again and popularized in 1997." I don't find anything else between those 2 dates, do you? ABF992 (talk) 01:17, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
- I can't find anything earlier, so I'll accept that's where it started. Look at https://smithsonianassociates.org/ticketing/tickets/reverse-underground-railroad-slavery-and-kidnapping-in-pre-civil-war-america deisenbe (talk) 14:29, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
- Good catch. It's from an article on Patty Cannon. What I read there is not the complete three word phrase "Reverse Underground Railroad", but this: "Schoolchildren today still read about the Underground Railroad that helped escaping slaves travel from the South to Canada. Patty's operation was just the reverse. Her Underground Railroad was one way in the other direction." So yes, this could be the original idea for the phrase which was then picked up again and popularized in 1997." I don't find anything else between those 2 dates, do you? ABF992 (talk) 01:17, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
- It's in the Baltimore Sun of April 3, 1955. deisenbe (talk) 22:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- Check newspapers.com and you'll see that the first mention of this term in its current use is 1997, related to an investigation of the Crenshaw House, (aka Old Slave House) in Illinois by some hired researchers, one of whom later wrote a book about it using the same term. If I find time, I'll add it in; if not, the info is there if someone else wants to go for it. ABF992 (talk) 19:24, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Inaccuracies on Constable Garrigues
editThere are inaccuracies in your section on Constable Garrigues. Notably, John Smith was John Purell's alias, not Thomas Collins (and neither of them were the head of the gang), and I find no record of a victim named Charles Bailey. (there was a James Daily who's story resembles the story told here.) The Johnson Gang referenced is the Patty Cannon Gang mentioned elsewhere in the article.
You can find my research at
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Reverse_Underground_Railroad_Victims
and
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Reverse_Underground_Railroad_Timeline
and my writeup on Constable Garrigues (my 3rd great uncle) is at
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Garrigues-389
Sam Scomp's tale is here:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Scomp-7
Regarding your sources, Frankie Hutton's book has some inaccuracies including a total botching of the spelling of Garrigues's name that she'd gotten from one of the newspapers of the time. Richard Bell has a new book out entitled Stolen which is really excellent and is one of my sources.
Please feel free to use any of my research in updating this page. Trinsics (talk) 20:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- To use your research it has to be published in a creditable, peer-reviewed source, like a newspaper or journal. deisenbe (talk) 20:33, 30 January 2023 (UTC)