Talk:John Moffat (Royal Navy officer)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on John Moffat (Royal Navy officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071019001432/http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6 to http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071019001432/http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6 to http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:16, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Who fired the crippling torpedo?

There's been a bit of editing about this. It looks to me as if most sources say Moffat, and that's also what German battleship Bismarck says. Since that is the main article, this article should reflect it, and any discussion about who fired the crippling torpedo should be hashed out there first. I'm leaving a message to that effect at Talk:German battleship Bismarck. Sjö (talk) 06:07, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

The edits seems to be Wikipedia:Conflict of interest editing, since 79.69.11.120 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) says here that he's Rodney Pattisson, son to one of the other pilots. Then there are two users: PATTISSON (talk · contribs) and Rodney Pattisson (talk · contribs), probably the same person. 92.4.211.4 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) also seems to be the same person, based on geolocation, edits and edit comments. That leaves Bardrick (talk · contribs) as the only uninvolved editor that question Moffat's role. Sjö (talk)

This article in the London Times explains the issue with regard to Wikipedia's coverage of the sinking. Someone else had already referred to the article without adding a citation. Rodney Pattisson, the son of Sub-Lieutenant Kenneth Pattisson who "dealt the decisive blow", and others are cited by The Times so we now have a reliable source to properly verify a change. The Times pay walled article has been lifted by another newspaper with a 'reputation' hereabouts which I shall not name. Philip Cross (talk) 16:01, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

It seems that this has been known for a while if these sources are accurate. This obituary for Patterson in 2002 mentions his decisive role and also mention the DSC he received for it. Did Wikipedia get duped into covering this after a book printed by a rival was published in 2010 more than 8 years after the death of the actual person that accomplished the task? The 2002 obituary and DSC for crippling the Bismarck seems like the book and subsequent claim are very questionable. I don't see a DSC for Moffat listed though he may have received one. --DHeyward (talk) 04:34, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

But if we follow the reference in the article, while the Times says that "it has been demonstrated" that Pattison dropped the key torpedo, it doesn't say who demonstrated it or how. And the title for the Times article implies that it is just a claim by Rodney Pattison. The Telegraph says that "others" saw a column of water rise on the Bismark's starboard right aft, but doesn't say who these others were or how the Telegraph knew this. Pattison's DSC was awarded for his part in the operation, not specifically for launching the crucial torpedo. All in all, it sounds like just a story that a father would tell his son when bragging about his wartime experiences. ~~ (20 April 2018) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:558:6022:19:3157:2AA6:9965:4B48 (talk) 00:59, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on John Moffat (Royal Navy officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071019001432/http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6 to http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071019001432/http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6 to http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/January/6

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:37, 27 November 2017 (UTC)