Talk:International Federation of Vexillological Associations

about 2009 congress, it is written as to be hold at Yokohama . We don't know yet , since members will vote only on august 7th at Berlin to agree for Yokohama as host of XXIII ICV or other candidates

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Don't they have a website?

Flag of the Federation

The knot displayed on the flag is what I recall from Boy Scouts as a sheet bend. Is there any significance in that?

See http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/vex-fiav.html. But as for the 2007 meeting in Berlin, we do have a website, but I need to dig it out. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 18:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Name of the Organization

Someone is defacing this page by changing the name from the official name (which is in French) into English. Not only are they changing FIAV's name, they are also changing the names of our members into English. Whilst FIAV does have an official English translation of its name (but it's not the official name) most of its members do not - its an international organization after all!

So whoever is making these changes please stop! The name of the organization is "Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques" hence its acronym of FIAV! Please also note that other international organizations such as FIA and FIFA are still in French on Wikipedia.

GrahamPadruig (talk) 19:17, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry but you are being disrupting as there is an official English spelling for FIAV and even if there isn't an official English spelling the Wikipedia rule is to Name the article in English since it is the English Wikipedia. Don't point to other violations (FIA and FIFA) of the rule to support your position.

Secondly, I assume by your moniker of GrahamPadruig that you might be Graham Bartram, Secretary–General for Congresses. If you are Graham Bartram or a relative of his, your editing of this article and his being an official of the FIAV put you in a confict of interest. --Spshu (talk) 16:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

The whole idea that an officer of a group editing factual information about the group being a per se "conflict of interest" is, at best, odd. For the record, I, Charles Spain, am the FIAV Secretary-General, and it is my job to convey factual information about FIAV. I am not particularly concerned that doing my job either violates Wikipedia standards or someone's perceptions. I do find this continuing kerfuffle to be mostly pointless.Fiavsecgen (talk) 15:42, 7 June 2012 (UTC) Having said that, I am no longer going to contribute to this entry, so the contents have no official input.Fiavsecgen (talk) 17:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

According to the FIAV constitution: "Art. 1 The name of this association is the Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques, which is abbreviated as “FIAV.” The official translations of FIAV's name are:

International Federation of Vexillological Associations (English); Internationale Föderation Vexillologischer Gesellschaften (German); and Federación Internacional de Asociaciones Vexilológicas (Spanish)." That FIAV has an official English translation as "International Federation of Vexillological Associations" thus the Wikipedia rule is to Name the article in English applies even more directly than in the case of FIA and FIFA. Spshu (talk) 14:01, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

As I mentioned on your talk page, it is about the established usage. Coming from a vexillologist point of view, FIAV has more established usage than the English name. Also, as pointed out, FIAV has a diverse membership so not everyone will have English names at all. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 22:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

BTW, Spshu, you cannot make guesses over to who is editing under that account. This is called outing and this is against policy. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 22:11, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I am now not making guess, he "outed" himself on his own article that he improperly edits himself. His name in the infobox is "Graham Michael Pàdruig Bartram". The International Federation established its English name and usage as "International Federation of Vexillological Associations". Spshu (talk) 16:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

If he wants to identify himself, he can under his own terms. It is just that, within Wikipedia policy, we cannot take guesses who is editing the account. As for the English name, it is listed in Article 1 of the Constitution of FIAV, along with the name in German and Spanish. But when it comes to just general usage, I have seen the French acronym used a lot more than the full name of FIAV, but French still dominates in the terms of name usage. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 17:29, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 15:31, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

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Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques → International Federation of Vexillological Associations – The Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques does have an official translation of their name into English: "International Federation of Vexillological Associations". As Wikipedia policy is for articles to be in English. --Spshu (talk) 19:59, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

What you linked was if the entire article is in another language (other than English). Just because there is an English name doesn't mean we have to use it. Please see Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#Divided_usage_in_English-language_sources. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 06:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

What you link to is to two different spellings in English of a foreign place name, so your point fails completely and utterly. So what if the WP sections aren't easy to find/navigate, you get the point that the article is not titled in the English language. Read your own link at the top of that page says: "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals and major news sources)." bolding mine.

So, it does belong in English unless you can give me a good reason why? Thus the policy makes it incumbent on YOU not me to prove why it should not be in English. All reasons are stacked against you. 1) All words in the French name are easily translated into English.

• • Fédération --> Federation
  • internationale --> International
  • des --> of
  • associations --> association
  • vexillologiques --> Vexillological

2) People are not general going to type in the French spelling to find the article as this is the ENGLISH language Wikipedia.

3) The Organization's governing documents give an official translation.

So it clearly not in contention what the English language name is. Just that you flaunt the policy. Spshu (talk) 21:54, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

• Support per WP:UE and WP:COMMONNAME. A google books search gives 4940 hits for "International Federation of Vexillological Associations" compared to 28 for "Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques". Jenks24 (talk) 05:18, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Now that was something I haven't seen before. Ok, let me go ahead and make the move. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 15:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Need for page move: change of organizational name"

The dispute over rendering the page name in English or French has apparently been resolved by the FIAV General Assembly, which voted at the ICV in London to remove the alternative translations of its name; according to the group's constitution, "The name of this association is the Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques, which is abbreviated as 'FIAV.'" http://fiav.org/constitution/ Georgepreble (talk) 21:59, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

No, it was resolved above. This is an English website, so unless the English language adopts the French name, the name should be in English. Official names have no absolute hold over naming the article under WP:COMMONNAME. Spshu (talk) 15:24, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I think you have mischaracterized the policy. It is not that "[o]fficial names have no absolute hold over naming the article." Rather, the policy you cite states that "Wikipedia does not *necessarily* use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is *most frequently* used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." The name *most frequently* used to refer to the organization is "Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques" and that is its only name. There are no longer multiple names for the organization, which is one of the reasons cited above for using the English translation. Other than Wikipedia and sites that basically "reprint" the wikipedia entry, no one in the field uses "International Federation of Vexillological Associations". Circumstances change, and Wikipedia needs to recognize that. Thank you. Georgepreble (talk) 16:47, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I have not "mischaracterized the policy." You just did get my explanation as you just repeated that official name are not the only (absolute) option for the name of the article. Given that the English translation was official recognized as the official English name of the organization and there for used more in English (WP:UE). Thus removing an official English name doesn't stop the common name from being the English translation. Spshu (talk) 20:03, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

FIAV colour codes

Should mention be made of this de-facto standard? Arlo James Barnes 09:17, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Splitting proposal

I propose that the section about International Congress of Vexillology be split into a separate page called International Congress of Vexillology.this section is large and well-sourced enough to make its own page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.FLOCK (talk • contribs) 11:43, 13 September 2023 (UTC)