Talk:History of the Slovak language

[Untitled]

Please, site some sources, when was the first surviving Slovak written document issued? Where is it stored? I assume burgers were speaking German, since all Towns in Kingdom of Hungary were populated by Germans and Vallons. No Slovak is mentioned. Not even 15th century. If you think less, please, cite location and source --Vargatamas 17:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

What kind of history is this?!

This whole article is a joke, right? Has this article have EVER been reviewed by a reputable historian?! Like no offense, but this article totally lacks any relevant and factual information.CoolKoon (talk) 22:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Would you mind clarifying which statement you consider POV, factually wrong, misleading, etc.? You cannot just put six templates to an article (by the way, one of them has already been there, so your addition is redundant) without presenting your arguments here. For now, I am going to remove the tags and I expect you to list your specific objections to what the article says before you put them back. Tankred (talk) 23:52, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a quick answer: personally the whole article sounds to me as if it's been taken out of a fairy-tale book. I don't have time for this right now, but I'd rewrite the whole article (which sounds more like a collection of myths than a FACTUAL article about the Slovak language). —Preceding unsigned comment added by CoolKoon (talk • contribs) 00:15, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The entire text seems to date back to an anonymous IP in 2003. Lisa the Sociopath (talk) 23:15, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm......The IP address' owner seems to be Nextra (GTS Nextra since a year ir two), an ISP. The specific address has been assigned to a user in Bratislava. CoolKoon (talk) 09:40, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

CoolKoon added these [1] templates between 22:24-22:42, January 17, and made a rather sentimental expression about the addong of them on the talkpage at 22:29[2]. Tankred asked for expression at the talkpage at 23:52[3], then deleted the templates from the article as "lack of any discussion" [4] at 23:53 (!!!!). CoolKoon replied at 00:15 btw[5], but Takred did not replied back, so the discussion practically ended. I did not want to label or point out this act, so I simply put them back. --Rembaoud (talk) 10:45, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Again: What are the specific pieces of information in this article that you are disputing and what are the sources that your opinion is based on? Please do not reinsert the "disputed" tag without explaining what exactly and why you are disputing. Tankred (talk) 00:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Disputed point from my side: there is no list of SK language documents. What we have 4-5 town laws in German from 15-16th centuries, in the Arpadian (12 volumes), Angevian (30 something volumes), and Luxemburgian Regesta (published 5-6 volumes) of Kingdom of Hungary on the territory many documents explicitly German (pressburg and towns) significant locations are referred in Hungarian even is Szepes, where I would no place any Hungarians in teh last 500 years. So the 1ST EVIDENCE listed is Bel Matyas, from 18th century and the title seems for me referring to CZECH grammar... So the "FACTS" are not supported by references, that means "fiction" on the 1st reading.--Vargatamas (talk) 10:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Can I guess? You're from Hungary, aren't you? I listened something about your historical propaganda. Slovaks consider themselves as successors of people of Great Moravia. There were some historical personas like Saints Cyril and Methodius, and one of them write Proglas, proem of saint gospel. Modern Slovak language is related with language used in this document and Slovaks also understand this document in original text. I also removed neutrality disputed box, until you don't post some serious info with resource.Empiko (talk) 17:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)eMPiko

Can I guess? You're either Slovak or Slav. Nothing has been solved and you quickly removed the POV sign. I don't know who put it back, but I agree with him/her. You should know, that any article without reliable sources can be disputed. Great Moravia=Slovaks? I don't thinks so. That's, what we call invented history. You can also produce reliable references to that, because I never read anything like that. I can assure you, that I know the history of that region.

Other: "I listened something about your historical propaganda." You wrote that to the supposed Hungarian editor. According to my best knowledge Hungarian historians are quite impartial and not at all nationalists (I read from them and checked the opinion of foreign historians, that's quite the same). In the communist years Hungary became antinationalist. Their historywriting hardly changed after the communists disappeared. That cannot be said about their counterparts. Why? It's enough to read about the extremely nationalist atmosphere in those countries. The Hungarians politicians did not even asked for Hungarian autonomy, when they signed the pact with the successor states after the collapse of communism. Quite to the contrary in the extremist atmosphere in Slovakia, even in the Hungarian parts, Hungarian language will be banned. The racist Beneš decrees (against Germans & Hungarians) were also confirmed in Slovakia. I'm disappointed in you guys. Is this what you call democracy?Carlos72 (talk) 19:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

POV and factual accuracy tags

Are there any objections to POV and factual accuracy of the article based on reliable sources?--Svetovid (talk) 11:14, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Total lack of references

I'm rather confused as to why there are no reliable references given for practically any of the content of this article. Without references it would seem that the article has a pretty low value. I realise that the people most likely to edit this article might also be those most likely to have an axe to grind, but I find it hard to believe that Slavic scholars and historians around the world have not come up with anything better than just the single reference provided here!Jimjamjak (talk) 13:11, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree, this article requires a sourced rewrite. Perhaps we should request assistance at WP:LING? —what a crazy random happenstance 02:35, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes. I must confess that I don't really know how to ask for this assistance, but it seems like a good place to start.Jimjamjak (talk) 10:03, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I've asked here. Now we just have to cross our fingers that someone with references, an interest in the area and a couple of hours to kill will drop by. —what a crazy random happenstance 05:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

"outstanding cultured languages"

"Pavel Doležal compares the Slovak language with other outstanding cultured languages." I don't really know what these "outstanding cultured languages" are supposed to refer to. If Doležal himself used this term, I don't think that it should be repeated here in this fashion. It is a completely outmoded way of speaking about languages, and hence the sentence should either be struck out, or written in such a way that makes it clear that it is the contemporary perception of Doležal.Jimjamjak (talk) 13:15, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

It has apparently been edited to read "Also, Matej Bel in the introduction to the Gramatica Slavico-Bohemica (1745, Bratislava) of Pavel Doležal compares the Slovak language with other recognised languages". This is less POV but somewhat more confusing, is it trying to say that Bel attempted to establish Slovak as a language separate from Czech? —what a crazy random happenstance 02:39, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

You're right. The change to the sentence has not necessarily added to the intelligibility of this section. I suppose the problem is that I don't have access to the source material. Given the lack of clarity in the original sentence, it would be tempting to remove the whole thing. Any objections?Jimjamjak (talk) 10:01, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

For much of its history Slovak was not regarded as separate from Czech (or in the east, Ruthenian). When it begun to be separated from those languages and recognised as a distinct language of its own ought to be noted. Not sure this is a good reference, however. —what a crazy random happenstance 05:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Early history

Is there any need to describe the history of those languages that chronologically preceded Slovak here? I would imagine that it would make more sense just to refer to the articles dealing specifically with those languages.Jimjamjak (talk) 13:17, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

There are no such articles at the present time to the best of my knowledge, there is no reason it oughtn't stay. It should, however, be better differentiated from the history of actual Slovak. —what a crazy random happenstance 02:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Good suggestion. I agree that the history of the preceding languages should be better differentiated from that of Slovak.Jimjamjak (talk) 10:02, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I have split the "Early history" section into two sections to better show the differences between the two. —what a crazy random happenstance 05:25, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Made up

The parts before the eighteenth century seem to be completely made up. 10th century? Even Polish and Czech were still one language!--Ancient Anomaly (talk) 22:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Definite article

Is there a good reason why this article isn't called "History of the Slovak language"? That would seem to be the most appropriate title.Jimjamjak (talk) 07:59, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Who are Jozef and Stefan?

In the article I came across "Many followers and students of Jozef and Stefan flee to Bulgaria, Croatia, later also to Bohemia, Rus' and other countries." I have never heard about them, nor they are mentioned in the article about Saints Cyril and Methodius. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.81.181.100 (talk) 16:07, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:53, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Scots language which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:44, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Unreliable and inaccuracies throughout

Where are the citations and references to old slovak texts? The best way to showcase the history of a language is to provide examples of it, and I hardly see any. Also, you keep saying that the proto-slavic language "ceased to exist" or became "extinct". That is inaccurate and could be misunderstood, because as far as I know proto-slavic never went extinct at any point, it simply evolved into multiple varieties now known as the various slavic languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gratakilla (talk • contribs) 20:28, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Ok, I can add some examples/citations. Of course, Old-Slavic ""ceased to exist" only in that sense that it evolved into distict Slavic languages. --Ditinili (talk) 09:50, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:15, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 23:15, 10 April 2020 (UTC)